The Star Void: Maybe cool, creative guys just don't want to be wrestlers anymore? - Page 8 - Wrestling Forum: WWE, AEW, New Japan, Indy Wrestling, Women of Wrestling Forums

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post #71 of 117 (permalink) Old 10-21-2016, 08:19 PM
 
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Re: The Star Void: Maybe cool, creative guys just don't want to be wrestlers anymore?

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Originally Posted by CoolestDude View Post
It wouldn't matter dude. The current wrestlers are computer game geeks. The old school guys were just cool dudes who wrestled and thats why wrestling was amazing. Kevin Nash is just way cooler than any of the current batch
IDK it's impossible to know what would happen with the stars of the past, would be they be as big now or would they be ruined by one of Vince's terrible gimmicks ?

For example if they debuted today:

Hulk Hogan: His gimmick is he's an idiotic beach bum who's addicted to tanning salons, for his entrance he get's wheeled down the down the ramp in a sunbed. His finisher is called the spray tan.

Randy Savage: His gimmick is he's constantly constipated because of his strange voice and he has a terrible fear of bottles of laxatives just like Andre's fear of snakes back in the day.

Andre the Giant: Because of his French origins he comes to the ring in a beret and a striped sweater with garlic around his neck, Hornswoggle becomes his sidekick repackaged in a frog outfit.

King Kong Bundy: Honorary white member of New Day, has frequent dance offs with Xavier Woods to prove who can jive best

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post #72 of 117 (permalink) Old 10-21-2016, 08:23 PM
 
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Re: The Star Void: Maybe cool, creative guys just don't want to be wrestlers anymore?

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Originally Posted by Godway View Post
And that's fine, but if you want big money, you cater to STARS. You don't try making your company the star. Look at all of the bullshit Dana White deals with from Conor, but when the PPV numbers come in it's alllllll worth it and then some. They make money together. Most of the guys who walked out on the WWE had plenty of valid reason to do it, and were RIGHT about the point they were making.

WWE is all about stooges today. And their stooges don't draw. Stars draw. As big of a debacle as Punk fighting in the UFC was, I'm sure Dana White is still very pleased with his return, since Punk drew him a fucking lot of PPV buys for an event that wouldn't have done near that number otherwise. And this was a guy WWE didn't deem a "star" or capable of drawing. Well, he's certainly a bigger star than anyone in their company right now. WWE had to abandon PPV, otherwise it would be fun to see the laughable numbers guys like Reigns put up trying to sell shows.
Yeah, I'm not disagreeing lol, but it is what it is. Essentially Vince McMahon knows how to make stars, but for whatever fucked up reason, he is choosing not to.

HHH on the flip side genuinely does not know how to make stars.

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post #73 of 117 (permalink) Old 10-22-2016, 02:36 AM
 
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Re: The Star Void: Maybe cool, creative guys just don't want to be wrestlers anymore?

The Hardy's are doing this over in TNA. You can't say that gimmick is not cool and creative.

Or what about Lucha Underground with their cool, creative angles.

The fans don't tune in.

The ratings seem to indicate that the fans don't tune in to cool, creative stuff and just watch what they perceive to be number one.

I mean when the WWE was killing the WCW at the end of the Monday Night Wars people still watched WWE over WCW in the worst Mae Young segment.

Brand Power and Star Power seems to be what draws and both storylines and wrestling seem to be secondary.

Unfortunately, right now they have all the stars in part timers at the expense of the weekly product stars. That's whats primarily killing the product.
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post #74 of 117 (permalink) Old 10-22-2016, 11:47 AM
 
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Re: The Star Void: Maybe cool, creative guys just don't want to be wrestlers anymore?

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Originally Posted by Rick_James View Post
Yeah, I'm not disagreeing lol, but it is what it is. Essentially Vince McMahon knows how to make stars, but for whatever fucked up reason, he is choosing not to.

HHH on the flip side genuinely does not know how to make stars.
I dont believe that anymore. I once bought into that, but now I know that is a false opinion that WWE has planted into our minds. Vince McMahon is a genius promoter, no doubt he can create a show and attract the masses IF he has the right ingredients to work with but he has no idea how to build a star, he never had.

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post #75 of 117 (permalink) Old 10-22-2016, 11:51 AM
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I dont believe that anymore. I once bought into that, but now I know that is a false opinion that WWE has planted into our minds. Vince McMahon is a genius promoter, no doubt he can create a show and attract the masses IF he has the right ingredients to work with but he has no idea how to build a star, he never had.
i disagree, look at the early ruthless aggression era crop they all became stars
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post #76 of 117 (permalink) Old 10-22-2016, 12:01 PM
 
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Re: The Star Void: Maybe cool, creative guys just don't want to be wrestlers anymore?

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i disagree, look at the early ruthless aggression era crop they all became stars
Ofcourse but not half as big as the AE stars. All Cena, Orton and Batista at their prime cant match up Hogan, Rock or Austin's star power.

5 years from now guys like KO, Roman, Rollins, Ambrose etc. will be consideres "stars".

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post #77 of 117 (permalink) Old 10-22-2016, 07:58 PM
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Re: The Star Void: Maybe cool, creative guys just don't want to be wrestlers anymore?

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Ofcourse but not half as big as the AE stars. All Cena, Orton and Batista at their prime cant match up Hogan, Rock or Austin's star power.

5 years from now guys like KO, Roman, Rollins, Ambrose etc. will be consideres "stars".
Of course Cena, Orton and Batista can't match up to them. The overall wrestling fanbase in their time frame doesn't compare.

This is where my issue comes in with the whole "Cena didn't draw nearly as much as Rock, Austin or Hogan". Of course he fucking couldn't. Did everyone suddenly forget how much people watched wrestling during the Monday Night Wars on a regular basis?

Lets take a look at Raw in 2005 for a moment and compare it with, say, 1998. In 2005, Cena able to help Raw gradually increase their ratings for the first time in god knows how long. The increase wasn't anything earth shattering but it was none the less a significant increase. Raw was able to average around 3.8 in 2005 after averaging 3.6 the previous year. At this point, WWE was the number one pro wrestling company in the world. Nothing else came close.

In 1998, Raw's average was significantly higher than this, with a 4.35 rating average. And yet despite this, they were LOSING that year. Yes, there was another pro wrestling show for another company beating them. You had a much higher audience to work with, which meant a larger number of fans to draw in.

Since 2004, only three guys where able to actually halt WWE's ratings decline and give them a slight gradual increase. Those guys where Cena, Batista, and Daniel Bryan. To try to compare them with Rock, Austin and Hogan is unfair and makes little sense. I'm not saying they would draw as much, if not more, but if we're going to make this claim, we're gonna need more to go off of than just "look at how much Rock drew during his time!"
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post #78 of 117 (permalink) Old 10-23-2016, 02:50 AM
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Re: The Star Void: Maybe cool, creative guys just don't want to be wrestlers anymore?

Take the booze, steroids and drugs away from all of the previous generations stars and see what you get - a bunch of nothing.

I know it sounds silly but imagine everyone from Hogan, Austin, Rock, Flair, HBK, Goldberg, Outsiders, Savage etc without any juice or booze/drugs?!?!

Now replace all of that with smoothies and video games and you get the same pussy shit you see on the roster now.

Last edited by Flat Ronnie; 10-23-2016 at 02:56 AM.
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post #79 of 117 (permalink) Old 10-23-2016, 02:55 AM Thread Starter
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Re: The Star Void: Maybe cool, creative guys just don't want to be wrestlers anymore?

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Originally Posted by Kostic View Post
I see what you mean but sometimes, you can't even show that IT factor without that freedom they no longer have. Where was Austin's IT factor when he was The Ringmaster? Hell, if the company hadn't given him freedom to find his own character, we'd now be talking about Fang McFrost instead of Stone Cold. Where was The Rock's IT factor when he was Rocky Maivia and when he had the most extreme example of X-Pac heat I can think of? The point is, sometimes you can't see that IT factor when the wrestler is not allowed to do their own thing and find what they're good at and what they can excel in. Hell, Roman Reigns might as well have IT, only he can't show it because they so stubbornly refuse to let him develop a character of his own.

At the end of the day, it's all just a means to an end, with that end being getting over. If Sami Zayn wasn't over, you could talk about how it's because he doesn't have personality or character. But he was MEGA over in Montreal when he faced Cena. He was MEGA over at the Royal Rumble. He was MEGA over at WrestleMania. He was MEGA over when he beat Owens at Battleground. Is it his fault that now he's wallowing in the midcard, or is it WWE's because they didn't follow up on it and turn that overness into a money draw?
I really don't think those examples are applicable to today's environment.

You could see the greatness in Austin as Stunning Steve and even in his extremely brief run as The Ringmaster. People in the industry who knew their shit (Paul E, Jim Ross, even Russo) LOVED Austin. Sometimes the audience is merely behind and that was certainly true of early to mid '90s wrestling crowds.

Rocky Maivia is also not a great example. He got X-Pac heat because wrestling was going through a massive transition in presentation and he was the poster boy for Vince's dated gimmicks. Not to mention, he was green as hell and had way less grooming than today's developmental figures. His PPV debut was a mere eight months after he decided to get into the industry. And listen to the way Jim Ross raved about him in those early broadcasts. He doesn't say everyone is going to be "the man" like he said about Rock. He met the kid and knew he had something special. The company was just initially off on how to package it. This was quickly rectified and he still shot to the moon in record time.

Obviously, the booking today is inconsistent and this makes things hard. But that doesn't change that Sami Zayn - in his look and his vibe - is a geek. He got over with highly niche audiences and his potential for drawing casuals in a main event/non-gimmicky capacity is extraordinarily limited.
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post #80 of 117 (permalink) Old 10-23-2016, 03:13 AM
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Re: The Star Void: Maybe cool, creative guys just don't want to be wrestlers anymore?

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Originally Posted by Flat Ronnie View Post
Take the booze, steroids and drugs away from all of the previous generations stars and see what you get - a bunch of nothing.

I know it sounds silly but imagine everyone from Hogan, Austin, Rock, Flair, HBK, Goldberg, Outsiders, Savage etc without any juice or booze/drugs?!?!

Now replace all of that with smoothies and video games and you get the same pussy shit you see on the roster now.
It sounds terrible, but I 100% agree. Same goes for creativity in todays rock music.
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