Positive crowd reactions are really that important anymore? - Page 2 - Wrestling Forum: WWE, AEW, New Japan, Indy Wrestling, Women of Wrestling Forums

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post #11 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-08-2016, 11:03 AM
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Re: Positive crowd reactions are really that important anymore?

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Originally Posted by THANOS View Post
It's not so much "popping for heels and booing faces" as it is about vocally appreciating the most talented wrestlers in the roster and booing less talented/stale wrestlers booked stronger/higher than them. That's all it is really. This is the Era of Appreciation more than anything.
i partially agree with you, there are times when the crowd dont appreciate anything, just remember the match between Rollins vs Balor, a solid match and the fans didnt care at all, they were more concerned about the ugly Universal Title meanwhile the performers were busting their butts to entertaining them.
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post #12 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-08-2016, 11:10 AM
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Re: Positive crowd reactions are really that important anymore?

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Originally Posted by TheFackingCrow View Post
It seems like every arena is the same nowadays, all full of smarks that will cheer for any random jobber just get noticed and hickjack the show, or just boo Roman Reigns to be cool and edgy.

Do casual fans even go to the shows anymore? Having a positive crowd reaction is really a proof of having appeal or charisma in this era? It seems like everybody is over at some degree, but nobody seems to look, act or draw like a star.
You ever thought maybe they boo Roman because they don't like him?
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post #13 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-08-2016, 11:30 AM
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Re: Positive crowd reactions are really that important anymore?

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Originally Posted by Arkham258 View Post
That's a fair point. WWE has conditioned fans to think nothing they see matters, so they've taken to going into business for themselves and basically entertaining themselves
WWE crowds chant a lot of stupid shit when they shouldn't, that much is true. Personally I think it's fine for crowds to chant whatever they want as long as it's related with what's happening in the ring and doesn't mess with the flow of the show, but they often do. I got legit pissed one of these days when during a great Wyatt promo fans were doing the stupid 'What' shit. It ruins the promo. Just to give an example, I'm fine with people chanting 'Cena sucks' during his match if that's how they feel about him, but I'm not fine with people chanting for RVD, Y2J or other wrestlers that aren't there.

You made a reference to the Lucha Underground crowds earlier, and I think they are a perfect example of what's happening with today's crowds. Jack Evans, King Cuerno and others are often cheered when they come out, but people will boo them if they attack a fan favorite. BUT THEN we have a full-blown heel like Pentagon that very rarely gets booed, because there's not a guy on the roster that's more over than him. He even got cheered against Rey, it's crazy. The LU crowd is the epitome of a crowd that just wants to be entertained and will pop for anything they like, regardless of if it's a heel or a face doing it.

To me personally, that's not a bad thing. The whole face/heel dynamic is stupid in my eyes. Well, maybe not the dynamic itself, but the things that come along with it. I don't get why heels have to be friends with all the other heels and the same goes for the faces. I also don't like that it's so rare to see a tweener character these days, almost all wrestlers are all good or all bad. Heel turns and face turns are among the things that are more detrimental to the sense of realism in wrestling, because the people watching know morals don't work like that. You don't just stop being a bad guy because you have an issue with another bad guy. Morals don't change in a second.


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post #14 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-08-2016, 12:42 PM
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Re: Positive crowd reactions are really that important anymore?

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Originally Posted by Arkham258 View Post
You're calling wrestling crowds retarded and then you fuck up the simplest of memes. How does someone manage to pull that off
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post #15 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-08-2016, 01:03 PM
 
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Re: Positive crowd reactions are really that important anymore?

Not really, it's the revenue that is being generated that matters the most. The passionate crowds aren't going anywhere, as long as they're making noise it's all that really matters. It's hard to foster an environment where talented heels get booed unless you step out of the box and get creative with methods to garner heat, because fans of today are much more reluctant to suspend their disbelief unless they're given a legitimate reason to dislike the performer. As for babyfaces it's a similar deal, the fans want to feel like the performer "earned" his spot at the top rather than getting it because management sees potential in them. Things are so meta now. There's about 15, 000 Dave Meltzers in the arenas every week that refuse to be worked unless it's done with a specific group of darlings
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post #16 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-08-2016, 01:18 PM
 
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Re: Positive crowd reactions are really that important anymore?

I don't mind the crowd booing faces and cheering heels, I mean it only really is Roman, The Usos and Cena that get booed as faces. What I don't like is when they chant for commentators or chant about what title belts look like right in the middle of a match.
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post #17 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-08-2016, 01:54 PM
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Re: Positive crowd reactions are really that important anymore?

I fully disagree that crowds always need to be dead, or don't want to be worked, etc.. Jericho still works crowds brilliantly. He might get pops sprinkled in because he's excellent, but if he WANTS heel heat he will draw heel heat. It's like a lost art. Owens on Monday did an okay job of burying the "You deserve it" shit, but I felt he should have been more scathing. Take your cues from the Rock returning to Toronto after the fans turned on him there, then he turns on them. Fans enjoyed it because it was such a charismatic and funny performance, but at the same time, he was a HEEL.

On the same token, acts that actually engage the crowd, like New Day or Enzo/Cass, regardless of how stupid their segments can be, are still waking crowds up. Audiences are so dead because there's nothing really captivating them. It's not all because the fans have changed. WWE doesn't help matters with their booking. Seth Rollins upon return should have IMMEDIATELY been put in some kind of program where he could work a face turn, hell, even do a double turn with him and Reigns to help both guys out. Did they? Of course not. Instead, Rollins gets embarrassed by HHH again months later, and gets a "Randy Orton face turn" where he's beat up by someone so now he's a face. All the while Roman Reigns is still doing the same boring bullshit he's been doing for two years. Enzo/Cass are the most popular guys on the show, lets job them to the Shining Stars, while we continue our push to make them as lame and dopey as the New Day. HHH's actions from RAW two weeks ago drew face pops, was HHH there on Monday to explain and draw heel heat? Of course not.

There's just so many little fundamental things they do SO wrong these days in booking the show. At least on RAW, SD has been immensely better at booking to strengths, making guys/girls matter, and so on.
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post #18 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-08-2016, 02:14 PM
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Re: Positive crowd reactions are really that important anymore?

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Originally Posted by Chief of the Lynch Mob View Post
This largely comes from kayfabe being mostly dead, as well as WWE's storylines becoming stale over the years, meaning that fans have little reason to invest in characters and what they're trying to do, but more look at their individual abilities and what they're capable of, they judge them as performers and not what the WWE presents them as, as a result of their own mistakes.
On point .

The easiest solution would be to book the most talented individuals in the main event as either alignment and the crowd will fall in line with the intended responses.

They just need to book the show based on talent level hierarchy instead of "perceived" marketability.

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Originally Posted by anirioc View Post
i partially agree with you, there are times when the crowd dont appreciate anything, just remember the match between Rollins vs Balor, a solid match and the fans didnt care at all, they were more concerned about the ugly Universal Title meanwhile the performers were busting their butts to entertaining them.
There are always exceptions. No statement like this is an exact science. That match was also overshadowed by AJ/Cena prior to that, so there were other factors, along with the belt, leading to that reaction.



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post #19 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-08-2016, 02:22 PM
 
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Re: Positive crowd reactions are really that important anymore?

Crowds nowadays are more interested in getting themselves over then the match/wrestlers, it disrespectful imo. Is this new? No, not really but it certainly gotten worse with shit like "we are awesome!!" and the ever classic () "What?!" chants. I guess it not that important, if a crowd is ruining a match for me i simply mute them

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post #20 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-08-2016, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Arkham258 View Post
Wrestling crowds have gotten increasingly retarded in recent years, and it's not just WWE. Lucha Underground crowds are beginning to annoy me as you have a company that spent 2 years building up the most evil heel on the roster and he gets big huge baby face pops because stupid wrestling fans today just refuse to respect kayfabe and play along.

And the less said about gay ass NXT crowds the better as they have come up with some of most retarded chants in wrestling. Sometimes I wish they would just SHUT THE FUCK UP. Fuck NXT crowds. This is for them:



At this point, I think maybe Japan has the best crowds.



One of these things is not like the other
that bit at the top is golden, probably the truest thing ive ever read on this forum
the fans now arent willing to play along, id say thats more hardcores than casual because casuals would play along
aj styles has been working marvellously as a heel in recent times, yet the fans pop for him because oh look its aj styles lets pop
if you asked aj right now what sort of reaction hed want hed answer with being showered with boos, because that's the role hes playing
now ill admit with the likes of reigns and cena where its became apparent that the hardcore fans won't cheer them and the company wont turn them the phrase 'any loud response is a good one' has came into play
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