Lets Talk About Breaking Kayfabe in 2015. Where Do We Draw The Line? - Page 12 - Wrestling Forum: WWE, AEW, New Japan, Indy Wrestling, Women of Wrestling Forums

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post #111 of 116 (permalink) Old 10-21-2015, 01:08 AM
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Re: Lets Talk About Breaking Kayfabe in 2015. Where Do We Draw The Line?

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Originally Posted by ManiacMichaelMyers View Post
...To summarize, the acceptance or acknowledgement of adult fans regarding kayfabe, is basically non-existent. In that sense, yes, kayfabe is dead. No adult believes wrestling is real. But the presentation is such that it still is and that's what makes it entertaining. That's what leads to marking out and getting invested in what you are seeing despite knowing better.

For kids, kayfabe can either not-exist (because adult fans shitting all over it in a smark type way while watching with the kid) or it can completely exist to a naive child with no explanation of what's happening on the show and thinking the majority of what they are seeing is real. Look no further than kids crying over a Cena loss, and tell me kayfabe is dead for them.
Kayfabe is something much more complicated than just a kid crying over a Cena loss because he believes wrestling is for real, or an adult believing wrestling is fake, but marking out because it is entertaining. These occurences are no different than people temporarily engrossing themselves in a TV soap for an hour, but they are NOT the meaning of Kayfabe.

Kayfabe was an all encompassing cultural phenomenon that permeated the industry and psychology of the fans. This does not exist today even on a small scale. The mentality that went into Kayfabe has been replaced by the same mentality that viewers have when watching any TV series. This is not anywhere near the same thing as Kayfabe.

- Mike

Last edited by Batko10; 10-21-2015 at 01:10 AM.
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post #112 of 116 (permalink) Old 10-21-2015, 01:12 AM
 
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Re: Lets Talk About Breaking Kayfabe in 2015. Where Do We Draw The Line?

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Vince Mcmahon was coining his pro wrestling sports entertainment before that.


These intros were used in 1985 and 1986 and 1987.
So corrected but '89 would seem the year he used that term specifically to protect him from regulation.

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Originally Posted by Batko10 View Post
Kayfabe is something much more complicated than just a kid crying over a Cena loss because he believes wrestling is for real, or an adult believing wrestling is fake, but marking out because it is entertaining. These occurences are no different than people temporarily engrossing themselves in a TV soap for an hour, but they are NOT the meaning of Kayfabe.

Kayfabe was an all encompassing cultural phenomenon that permeated the industry and psychology of the fans. This does not exist today even on a small scale. The mentality that went into Kayfabe has been replaced by the same mentality that viewers have when watching any TV series. This is not anywhere near the same thing as Kayfabe.

- Mike
We are getting into semantics here and I do agree with your position from your definition of it but I think most people especially here just use the word kayfabe to simply mean the presentation of wrestling being real during the running time of each wrestling show. So the meaning has probably shifted over time but that's how most use it and I doubt even if you enlighten everyone on it's correct meaning that it will change how people usually use that word.

I see that you are talking about kayfabe from within the industry as opposed to kayfabe as part of the show's presentation. So yes, kayfabe within the industry is absolutely dead. Look no further than a few Twitter accounts or even WWE's own auxiliary programming for that. I do remember when kayfabe lived and it was very much pre-internet. The Internet had a whole lot to do with it's erasure from the industry. How can you hide what is so transparent?

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Last edited by ManiacMichaelMyers; 10-21-2015 at 01:22 AM.
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post #113 of 116 (permalink) Old 10-21-2015, 01:19 AM
 
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Re: Lets Talk About Breaking Kayfabe in 2015. Where Do We Draw The Line?

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Originally Posted by Batko10 View Post
Kayfabe is something much more complicated than just a kid crying over a Cena loss because he believes wrestling is for real, or an adult believing wrestling is fake, but marking out because it is entertaining. These occurences are no different than people temporarily engrossing themselves in a TV soap for an hour, but they are NOT the meaning of Kayfabe.

Kayfabe was an all encompassing cultural phenomenon that permeated the industry and psychology of the fans. This does not exist today even on a small scale. The mentality that went into Kayfabe has been replaced by the same mentality that viewers have when watching any TV series. This is not anywhere near the same thing as Kayfabe.

- Mike
Now this is completely true and sometimes when I see reviews of the original Mania cards by some IWC writers it shows their lack of knowledge of how exactly kayfabe was.

They judge WM 1-4 under the viewing habit you speak of that is used with today's product failing to understand that the product was deliberately slower with less high spots because the kayfabe was being considered.

I also think it has taken away some of the passion as well with some of the performers when selling matches.

I always show newer fans Hogan and Savage's promo against each other leading into Mania V and that was during the time period when kayfabe was broken in courts. The passion you see in Hogan and Savage you could tell they really wanted to be the top dog.

The same way some won't get why Hart and HBK were so cut throat with each other. This was not even 10 years after kayfabe broke, but the old tenets still existed somewhat compared to today that's for sure.

I actually after typing this think John Cena's way of not caring for certain things is actually why the fans of previous eras turned on him. When fans turned on guys like Hart and HBK they really took it to heart and they turned it up in their performances.
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post #114 of 116 (permalink) Old 10-21-2015, 01:23 AM
 
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Re: Lets Talk About Breaking Kayfabe in 2015. Where Do We Draw The Line?

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Originally Posted by ManiacMichaelMyers View Post
So corrected but '89 would seem the year he used that term specifically to protect him for regulation.
Oh definitely 1989 is indeed the year. Vince got sloppy though as I said around the time period of Hogan vs. Andre rematch and WM IV. It was the first time things leaked(at the time I didn't know about Savage's leak, but do remember as a kid reading Toronto Sun sports section predicting Dibiase winning which is crazy knowing now he was considered for real * some say that is why Tunney got fired for leaking to legit sports news in Toronto which ties into how kayfabe was a very serious thing).
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post #115 of 116 (permalink) Old 10-21-2015, 02:16 AM
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Re: Lets Talk About Breaking Kayfabe in 2015. Where Do We Draw The Line?

You need to grow up if you are an adult getting upset over wrestlers posting pics of themselves hanging out together on their social media pages, you're taking it way too seriously. Now breaking kayfabe on air is a different story.
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post #116 of 116 (permalink) Old 10-21-2015, 02:28 AM
 
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Re: Lets Talk About Breaking Kayfabe in 2015. Where Do We Draw The Line?

Smashing Kayfabe with a brick


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