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post #631 of 667 (permalink) Old 10-09-2019, 05:28 PM
 
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Re: Joker





Fuck.

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"He who fights monsters should see to it that he himself does not become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you."
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post #632 of 667 (permalink) Old 10-09-2019, 07:19 PM
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Re: Joker

this image is starting to circulate. i didn't even notice it.

pretty damn cool.

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post #633 of 667 (permalink) Old 10-09-2019, 08:01 PM
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Re: Joker

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Originally Posted by HugoCortez View Post
It's kinda a double standard flaw when it comes to "realistic" deconstructions of comic books where the story is usually stripped of anything remotely fantastical for the sake of said realism yet usually the society said movies portray, while usually explored more in depth, don't actually act more plausibly than those presented in "standar" comic book stories.







Most likely it was another nod to Taxi Driver, which was shot during a garbage strike (hence why that many garbage can bee seen in the background throughout the duration of Scorsese's 1976 film).




Which was already a central theme in Dark Knight Returns. I mean, I konw it's Go0tham and that the whole urban nightmare subthemes have been there since practically the late 70s but... don't know it's time to kinda mopve on and explore other narrative routes.

I liked the film though.
Quite true on all counts.

Joker definitely has a large number of threads which were at the core of much of The Dark Knight Rises, which was more ambitious--perhaps in wobbly fashion at times--by drenching itself in the history of the French Revolution, Revolutionary Tribunals, Charles Dickens's A Tale of Two Cities, Bane himself wearing clothing which seems to strongly resemble the garb of Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov, or Vladimir Lenin, coming out in 2012 hot off the heels of the predictable late-2000s financial earthquake and subsequent massive corporate bailouts, the Occupy Wall Street protests, and more. Joker's screenplay is its greatest weakness, with it telling the audience what it is showing the audience, showing the audience some, and then going back to telling. As said earlier by @Berzerker's Beard ; much of it honestly makes some of the screenplays for Christopher Nolan-directed films comparatively nuanced.

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I saw that as more of a triumphant moment for Arthur, signaling he finally had has confidence to become Joker. In my opinion, the song supported this along with the euphoric dancing on the steps. In Arthur's mind, he's his own crowd cheering him on to do whatever it is he's gonna do. As far as audiences "rooting" for him, I think that went out of the window when he killed Penny and got compounded with what happened in his apartment. This was just preparing us for something to go down soon.

If we ever get a sequel with Joaquin, then we'll see that fully formed Joker we all know. This film was simply about the journey to become Joker.
This was definitely his wish-fulfillment fantasy come to life; his dream world and the reality he was living had finally merged, so to speak. In that sense the film succeeds in what it aims to accomplish, by having Arthur/Joker traverse a trajectory that is psychologically not unlike Travis Bickle's, though vastly more deleterious to society. He simply had not channeled his destructive masculine energy toward something understandable; Bickle, as a man of violence, a Vietnam War U.S. marine veteran, slaying pimps and gangsters is an heroic act lionized by media while unbeknownst to almost everyone he was preparing to save the one princess virgin (Betsy) from her master (Charles Palentine) before saving the other (child prostitute) princess virgin from hers. Bickle's grasping of his distorted conception of his own being, his id, as it were, predestines him toward his outburst of violence as he himself roughly states through his diary writing. Arthur's transformation is different and rightly so, but his donning of what is perceived as the attire of "Joker" represents something similar to the unveiling of Bickle's mohawk.

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Fuck.
You did not know that? Aw.



Loved Joaquin Phoenix's vocalizations, cadence, tone, everything he did vocally. This is not the "Mythic Joker" of Heath Ledger and it is not the "Goofy Crime Boss Joker" of previous incarnations but "Loser Loner Joker." The failed mentally ill comedian who becomes a narcissistic mass murderer.

His voice was not so high that he audibly resembled Casey Affleck but his vocal performance did bring the actor to mind.

Also, the previous post was assembled in only a few minutes, and rather shoddily, too (apologies). Should have mentioned that the first major sequence on the subway was highly reminiscent of Michael Winner's Death Wish, and the film's best, most suspenseful sequence, that of the two cops--good to see Bill Camp and Shea Whigham, two of this time period's more understated character actors, continue to score roles for which they are overqualified--was definitely taking a page out of William Friedkin's The French Connection (Arthur seeking out the last of the Wall Street trio hit that lovingly, too). The cinematography by Lawrence Sher seemed to be evoking those films, too, with a muted duskiness, drowning Gotham City in a kind of moldy, sickly hazel light mist. One element visually that was fairly excellent was how the vividness of the motion picture seemed to gradually increase as Arthur/Joker lapsed into full psychotic narcissism; his dancing atop the stairs seems to represent both the conclusion to the life of "Arthur" and the nascent budding of "Joker" with the picture brilliantly capturing the splashes of water from beneath him as though he is dancing in the primordial fluid.



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post #634 of 667 (permalink) Old 10-09-2019, 09:30 PM
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Re: Joker

so all of you wrong. none of you knew what this film was really about.

the true, underlying threat of joker... was whiteness.



bravo new york times, and bravo to this totally sane and 'not racist' writer
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post #635 of 667 (permalink) Old 10-09-2019, 09:50 PM
 
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Re: Joker

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You did not know that? Aw.
I remember reading it a year ago but didn't think much about it until after seeing Joker. If Marty had directed, Joker would've been a surefire masterpiece. Phillips did a good job but there were a couple of noticeable stumbles that I don't think Scorsese would've made. That being said, Joker may be my favorite movie of all time despite any flaws.

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so all of you wrong. none of you knew what this film was really about.

the true, underlying threat of joker... was whiteness.



bravo new york times, and bravo to this totally sane and 'not racist' writer


People projecting real hard with this film. Is Joker the real problem, or their issue with straight white males? It's so weird and pathetic.

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post #636 of 667 (permalink) Old 10-09-2019, 10:04 PM
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Re: Joker

There's no way to take that seriously.

Also go read Armond White's review of Joker imo.

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post #637 of 667 (permalink) Old 10-09-2019, 10:15 PM
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Re: Joker

^^^^^^^^

I like how this sums up that type of bullshit reaction that these articles are putting out.

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post #638 of 667 (permalink) Old 10-10-2019, 05:01 AM
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Re: Joker

I saw it last week and Iím still thinking about it. I loved it, but itís not really a film that you are meant to feel that way about. It makes you want to identify and relate to Arthur and cheer him on as he starts the slide to the Joker but afterward you feel like shit for relating to him. At least thatís how I felt.

On Phoenix, the last 20 minutes or so I genuinely lost myself in his performance and I couldnít even see Arthur under the make up, just Joker. I believed he was the Joker.


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post #639 of 667 (permalink) Old 10-10-2019, 11:08 AM
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Re: Joker

not a complaint really, just a minor nitpick here. as a huge fan of the character i actually don't appreciate that they decided to title the film "joker".

i mean obviously i understand their reasoning from a commercial standpoint, but we know this is not a true to form rendition of the character born from the comics. this is quite clearly a re-imagining and a deconstruction that presents to us an alternate viewpoint of an already popular icon. it would be like if "the last temptation of christ" had been titled "jesus" instead.

even if this movie had nothing to do with batman or comics and it was it's own film, i'm not sure "joker" as a title would work. he adopts that name only in the final 20 minutes and there's no indication that it's coming. maybe it works in an avant garde type way seeing as he's an aspiring comedian, but ehhh.
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post #640 of 667 (permalink) Old 10-10-2019, 11:17 AM
 
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Re: Joker

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Originally Posted by Berzerker's Beard View Post
not a complaint really, just a minor nitpick here. as a huge fan of the character i actually don't appreciate that they decided to title the film "joker".

i mean obviously i understand their reasoning from a commercial standpoint, but we know this is not a true to form rendition of the character born from the comics. this is quite clearly a re-imagining and a deconstruction that presents to us an alternate viewpoint of an already popular icon. it would be like if "the last temptation of christ" had been titled "jesus" instead.

even if this movie had nothing to do with batman or comics and it was it's own film, i'm not sure "joker" as a title would work. he adopts that name only in the final 20 minutes and there's no indication that it's coming. maybe it works in an avant garde type way seeing as he's an aspiring comedian, but ehhh.
What would you have called it instead?
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