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#1 ·
What Is This?
This is our new area of the forum where you can post columns!

What Is A Column?
The only criteria for a column is that it be wrestling related and be a minimum of 800 words. So that can be breaking down your thoughts on a particular topic or a review of a particular match or show or some wild and crazy fantasy booking idea you have for instance.

Why Is This A Thing?
Because seabs wanted it to be…
The idea is to give everyone a place where more in depth posts can be made without getting lost in the clutter of threads full of one line posts. Hopefully it will also encourage people to create more in depth content that’s generally more interesting for other people to read, as well as giving users an easy to find destination for those who are looking for more fleshed out opinions.

Who Can Post A Column?
Anyone! There’s no criteria at all as long as it’s 800+ words on a wrestling related topic.

When You Say “Wrestling”?
Anything wrestling. WWE wrestling, old school wrestling, international wrestling, indies wrestling, midget wrestling, whatever you want!

How Do I Post A Column?
In just the same way you would post a thread, only you do it in this forum.

Will I Feel Aroused When I Post A Column?
Hopefully!
 
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#99 ·
One time in WCW James Brown appeared at a ppv unadvertised. Eric Bischoff thought it would make people want to order future ppvs because it helped create a sense of anything being able to happen at ppvs. In order to create that sense of unpredictability surprise appearances need to happen on a regular basis. I don't think WWE can pull that off even if they wanted to.

If a big name who isn't regularly part of the shows is going to appear, it should be aadvertised. They don't have to say what they'll do, just that they'll be there.

I agree with everything else.
 
#101 · (Edited)
Not really. He gave the world title to Christian and Asuka, that's MUCH more unlikely than Sami Zayn winning a world title, and especially a midcard title. Hell, Jinder Mahal won the world title. What's so unlikely about Zayn winning a midcard title? Mike Kanellis just won a midcard title. There's no barrier whatsoever on who can win a midcard title. The barrier is all on the world championship, and even then, it's been broken a bunch of different times by people more unlikely than Sami. And I honestly think Joe would be more unlikely to win a world title than Zayn, because the crowd just can't get nice things.

Anyway, they don't need unpredictability, they need their product to be good. If you can guess all the outcomes, fine, if that's what makes the most sense and what people want to see the most. They've always been predictable, but 20 years ago, it was good because the route they were going was generally what you wanted. Now you know what's coming, but you don't want the results, so you just tune out.
 
#103 · (Edited)
In professional wrestling, it’s almost universally considered a necessity for wrestlers to get interview time. Talking themselves up as the best in the business, discussing how much they hate their rivals, it’s as common as the actual wrestling itself. A good wrestler is said to be able to talk the fans into the building. Ric Flair bragged about his lavish lifestyle and how he’d outwrestle Dusty Rhodes. It’s hard to imagine how Flair, Dusty, Jake Roberts, Hogan, Savage or most other legends would have turned out had they been granted zero opportunities for interviews.


But then there are those who take a road far less traveled. The road of silence. Sometimes we get wrestlers who willingly choose not to talk at all, or very little. At first glance, this seems like lunacy. Sure, it can be difficult for some, but most think it’s essential to the game. Bret Hart wasn’t the best talker before 1997, but he still had to do interviews in order to make a connection with the audience. In a business where you need to dare to be different, some refuse to pick up a microphone. Some willingly choose to be voiceless.


But in order for a voiceless wrestler to get over with the audience, there needs to be something else they can bring to the table that is truly special. Something they can get across to the fans without saying a word.


In ECW, Sabu was a wild, crazy man hell bent on hurting other people, even if it meant sacrificing his body in the process. Crashing through tables, jumping off chairs, wrestling in barbed wire, he’d do anything. Anything except verbally berate his opponents. Except for extremely rare and brief occasions (not counting his WWE run), he was never allotted time to talk up his feuds (Paul Heyman eventually gave him a manager in Bill Alphonso.) But Sabu was able to do some great aerial maneuvers, a lot of moves that at the time were not commonly seen in the United States. He was able to get across to the fans that he was maniac by being brought in strapped to a gurney, putting himself through tables for no other reason than to hurt himself, and just by the nature of his suicidal aerial offense. Sabu didn’t need a microphone, he said everything loud and clear with his actions. And because Sabu didn’t talk, it gave him a unique aura. Fans knew enough about him for him to be over, but I’m sure fans wanted to know more of his thoughts on certain feuds and rivalries.


Before Kane’s character started speaking, he had impaired vocal cords and only spoke on rare occasions with an electronic device. At first he had his kayfabe father, Paul Bearer, by his side to help develop angles on the microphone. But after they split on screen, for periods of time Kane was a quiet solo act. He relied on his actions in the ring to tell the story. You could sense by how he moved if he was angry. Sometimes you knew he was emotional, by showing displays of compassion towards fallen friends (X-Pac and Chyna). Kane could speak with his actions, but he was helped a great deal in getting over by his incredible size. He was nearly 7 feet tall and a lean, muscular 320 lbs. Just being huge helps a great deal in pro wrestling. Before Kane started talking, he had a unique aura about him. Just like with Sabu, fans knew enough about how Kane was feeling, but we wanted to know more about him.



And while the lack of interview time does create an intriguing aura to a voiceless wrestler, they do have a hindrance that characters surrounding him will need to make up for. At Survivor Series 2014, Sting made his first appearance on WWE television and ended the Authority (temporarily). He did so without saying a word, as he was silent in all his WWE appearances until the go home Raw before WrestleMania. Commentators needed to explain to us that he was a vigilante, to clarify a picture we sort of already saw. Paul Heyman said Sting could say more with his actions than most wrestlers could in a twenty minute promo. But truth be told, those actions can’t say everything. Triple H needed to carry the verbal side of things, to make it less vague on at least one side. If there is a rivalry between two characters who don’t speak, it is a very tough program to pull off.


Obviously managers can be a valuable tool for silent wrestlers. As stated before, Paul Bearer did a lot of speaking for Kane. And while we wondered what Kane was all about, we could get some of the answers by looking at Paul Bearer. They had a partnership where Paul basically controlled Kane and made him do whatever he wanted. In a way, Kane’s incentives were to do whatever his father wanted him to do, like summon lightening during a Raw. Paul Bearer and longtime rival/ally Undertaker explained to all of us what Kane’s background was, and we knew he was unable to speak because of his impaired vocal cords, and was somewhat mentally disturbed. Jim Ross, Vince McMahon and Jerry Lawler did a great job of constantly describing the kayfabe environment that surrounded Kane.


George “The Animal Steele” did a famous storyline in the eighties where he was infatuated with Randy Savage’s valet, Miss Elizabeth. George’s character had trouble speaking because he was mentally deficient. But through the broken sentences and sporadic words he put together, and the tone of voice he would use, we could tell he was a good hearted person. He would say “pretty” when shown a picture of Miss Elizabeth, and through various other actions, we understood he had a crush on the first lady of wrestling. He didn’t fully explain it, because he couldn’t, but we understood it. And just like in the Triple H/Sting program, Macho Man needed to carry a lot of the storyline in his own right. He conveyed his intense jealousy and possessiveness, and he did that mostly through his interviews, through his words.


Yokozuna was a physically imposing human being, to say the least. Weighing over six hundred pounds, he manhandled many preliminary wrestlers with ease. But to the best of my knowledge, he never spoke a word besides “Banzai!”. His character was Japanese and did not speak English. He had Mr. Fuji with him who could break the language barrier for him and communicate for him to the audience. Jim Cornette, though he didn’t speak Japanese, could do the same. Yokozuna had a somewhat mysterious aura to him as well, and we understood him through his actions. He was deathly afraid of the Undertaker because he ran away from him, looking terrified. He was sick and tired of how Jim Cornette treated him and eventually wanted payback, and we understood that through the anger on his face, and giving the Banzai Drop to a dummy dressed like Cornette. Yokozuna looked like a monster, so he didn’t need to give interviews.


And while voiceless characters can get over through their actions, size and/or managers, what can’t be made up for is their push, or lack of attention in the product. I remember a lot of luchadores in WCW didn’t get mic time, and while they had something special to offer in the ring, if they weren’t getting a push, no one cared about them. People like Sabu, Sting, Kamala, etc. were hyped up in promotional packages and commentators spent a great deal of time discussing them. Without that type of focus from the company, voiceless wrestlers are in a seriously tough position. Most wrestlers, even those the promotion deemphasizes, can get a break occasionally by saying something interesting in their brief interview time. Villano #2 in WCW didn’t get those chances. WCW hyped up Sting week after week in 1997, and while there were plenty of wrestlers on their roster who didn’t speak, they didn’t get nearly the attention and hype Sting did. He didn’t say a word that year until the first Thunder, he simply stared blankly, pointed baseball bats and attacked the nW.o. But he needed the attention he got to become as marketable as he was that year.


It’s relatively rare in wrestling we get characters who willingly don’t speak, despite getting strong pushes. Some characters may do it because they are too crazy and uncontrollable to speak, like Sabu. Some characters physically couldn’t, like Kane. Others couldn’t speak English like Yokozuna, and others simply had a serious, somewhat depressive nature to them where they chose to be silent, like Sting. Whatever the case may be, these wrestlers need to get themselves over through their actions, their physical size and/or their managers. But not only that, it is a necessity to hear the other people surrounding them talk about them, like commentators, their rivals, their allies, their managers if they have one. And above all else, they are only marketable when they get focus from the company, with Sting in 1997 being a prime example. They are the few, the rare, the enigmatic, the voiceless.
 
#146 ·
...and you sound like an ignoramus for expecting someone that is almost 40 years old that lived in another country 95% of his whole life thus far to speak fluent english. If you listen, he can hold a conversation in english and his command and speaking of the language is improving!
 
#106 ·
Link: They Just Can't Wait To Be King: A Look At WWE Reviving The King Of The Ring Tournament



A fun week coming up in WWE! After a really high quality Summerslam weekend, encompassing the NXT Takeover, Summerslam itself and the Raw and Smackdown following, World Wrestling Entertainment are really firing on all cylinders lately. And of course, the Raw Reunion special the other week was an example of the "old school/legends" show done right, in my opinion. Normally, post Summerslam, this is a time when WWE typically take their foot off the gas, but that is not the case this year. Starting this week on Monday Night Raw, they're digging into the vault with something that was a PPV staple and honoured tradition throughout WWE history- the King Of The Ring tournament.

What Is It?

The King Of The Ring is a single elimination tournament, usually comprised of 16 wrestlers. Its origins can be traced all the way back to 1985, when the inaugural tournament was won by Don Muraco, defeating The Iron Shiek in the finals. Becoming King Of The Ring was an accolade considered right up there in importance with winning major championships in WWE. Main event stars usually didn't win the crown, but a KOTR victory could be seen in the same vicinity as winning the prestigious Intercontinental Championship, especially through the 1990s- becoming the King Of The Ring usually meant you were en route to becoming a main eventer and/or world champion. Bret Hart, Stone Cold, Triple H and Kurt Angle all ascended to main event status following their KOTR victories, to name a few.

So, if this tournament was so prestigious, why did WWE abandon it? Perhaps they felt it had run its course as a storytelling device. After all, another long-time WWE staple, the Royal Rumble, could play essentially the same role in catapulting a young wrestler to superstardom. Or perhaps they felt the tournament format was a little too "sports" orientated for a "sports-entertainment company". WWE's reasons for taking away the King Of The Ring tournament have never been officially revealed. They first took away KOTR after Brock Lesnar's victory in 2002. It had existed as a yearly tournament from 1985, transitioned into its own PPV event in 1993, and disappeared altogether after The Next Big Thing destroyed Rob Van Dam in the tournament finals.

As a fan, my only issue with The King Of The Ring tournament has been the use of the "King" gimmick. Perhaps it was that hokey-ness that put WWE off using KOTR. It first occurred in the second annual tournament, where Harley Race opted to don a crown and refer to himself as "King" Harley Race. Not every winner has had to use the King gimmick, and not all of it has been bad- when they brought back the tournament (but not the PPV) in 2006- Booker T transformed into King Booker, with Queen Sharmell, and it was legitimately the most entertaining work of his WWE career. Even though it was quite comedic, it suited Booker's personality, and he parlayed that into a strong run as World Heavyweight Champion on the Smackdown brand.

Other times, however, it has been quite cringe-worthy. The last two KOTR winners- Sheamus in 2010 and Wade Barrett in 2015- have gone the whole hog with the crown, scepter and robe, and rather than enhance their career, it made it impossible to take them seriously. Poor Barrett never recovered, and Sheamus took a hell of a while to rehab. In contrast though, a King Of The Ring victory was one of the most iconic moments of all time for one superstar. Not a crown or scepter in sight.



"Talk about your Psalms, talk about John 3:16... Austin 3:16 says 'I just whooped your ass!"

Stone Cold Steve Austin got a couple of minutes to cut a promo following his 1996 King Of The Ring victory over Jake "The Snake" Roberts, and in doing so coined one of the most famous catchphrases of all time. Sold a fuckload of t-shirts and other merch out of it too. In mid-1996, this was one of the very early examples of the Attitude Era creeping into WWE, and it happened because of King Of The Ring.

The Revival

No, we're not talking about Scott Dawson and Dash Wilder. And we're not going to say "fuck the Revival", because judging by the field of competitors in this year's King Of The Ring tournament, it could absolutely be a star-making event if handled correctly. Let's look at the brackets:



An interesting selection of competitors. Many of them fit the bill of wrestlers who have seemed underappreciated or underutilised for a long time- a few names that Kevin Owens shouted out in his recent promo blasting Shane McMahon for taking TV time away from deserving people- Apollo, Ali and Buddy Murphy to name a few. Over on the Raw side, Samoa Joe is someone that longtime fans want to see get more spotlight, and becoming the 2019 King could be the way to do it. Also, based on recent booking and positioning, Ricochet and Drew McIntyre could be two favourites to win the whole thing- but they're facing each other in the first round!

In the past, the King Of The Ring has been a one night tournament, but that doesn't seem to be the case here. It seems like the first round will occur this coming week on Raw and Smackdown... and given that the brands don't clash until the finals, we might see the quarterfinals and semi finals occur in following Raw and Smackdown episodes? We haven't been given concrete information about that. Part of the fun used to be seeing wrestlers have to drag themselves through multiple matches in one night, and all the drama and stories that can come from that. It was done to especially great effect in 2001, where Kurt Angle not only had to wrestle multiple KOTR tournament matches, he also had a Street Fight with Shane McMahon (side note- an absolute classic). Hopefully, we get some clarity soon. Personally, I'd like the first round to be done on Raw and Smackdown this week as planned, and then have the final 8 go at it on Raw the following week. Quarterfinals, semifinals and finals make a total of 7 matches (quick maffs), and that'd be a great way to fill 3 hours. I still wish Raw would go back to 2 hours, and leave 3 hour run times for milestone events, or special episodes like King Of The Ring, but WWE and USA Network love advertisement money too much to let that happen. Anyway...

Predictions

I predict that we're going to get some stellar wrestling matches based on the brackets above. Ricochet vs. Drew McIntyre should be a ridiculously awesome clash of styles, and Ali and Buddy Murphy had some classic matches on 205 Live last year. Also, Buddy Murphy had an amazing match with Roman Reigns on Smackdown last week. Go find it and watch it. Amazing.

As for a winner... Ricochet? I hear Paul Heyman is a huge fan, and Ricochet has had "king" in his social media handle forever, so... destiny? But honestly, Drew McIntyre, Samoa Joe, Ali, Andrade... all seem like potential candidates to be King. I feel like Kevin Owens is too embroiled in the Shane McMahon storyline to really give this King thing a crack, but hey, he just might channel his idol Stone Cold, who knows?

------

I have two wishes when it comes to this tournament. One, no hokey King shit. Two, that there's some kind of reward for the winner. Ideally, it'd be a set in stone thing- like I thought that they had the perfect set-up in 2002- KOTR tournament in June, winner gets a WWE Championship shot at Summerslam. Seems like a great way to keep things interesting during that lull that WWE sometimes drops into between Mania and Summerslam. In this case, it'd be a way to combat the lull between Summerslam and Survivor Series. But if they're not going to hand out a title shot, at least give the winner a good push. Make King Of The Ring mean something again.

It might be nostalgia, it might just be remembering iconic moments that spawned from the history of King Of The Ring, but I'm really looking forward to this tournament. Stars could and should rise as a result of this, and I'll be watching closely. It's also encouraging on a larger scale that WWE are putting on events like this to maintain fan interest. It's almost like they're a bit worried about some potential competition taking some viewers away. Totally unrelated, but I hear there's a little show being run down at the Sears Centre in Chicago at the end of the month?

Ah well. Who wants to be Elite, when you can be a King?

Until next time, take care,

Mick
 
#109 ·
It might have added an extra 5 seconds to writing the title, tops. You're not supposed to capitalise articles (a, an, the), coordinating conjunctions, and prepositions, but it's just my preference to make it look "neater".

"They Just Can't Wait to be King: a look at WWE Reviving the King of the Ring Tournament" just looks weird to me. If I was writing an assignment I'd probably follow the "correct" way to do it. In checking up on the rules of capitalisation on Google, most results seemed to have qualifiers like "generally", so the rules of it seem flexible.
 
#110 · (Edited)
Throughout the entire decade of the nineties, and a few years before and after, WCW was the WWF’s biggest competition. WCW gave Vince McMahon all he could handle and then some by constantly stealing away several of his top stars and by defeating Raw in the ratings for over eighty weeks in a row. It’s been said that during WCW’s existence and even afterwards, Vince has tried to bury the credibility of WCW by sabotaging the former WCW main eventers who signed with the WWE. In my opinion, there is some degree of truth to this. But Vince has not tried to sabotage former WCW stars nearly to the degree that many would like to think. In fact, he has given plenty of big opportunities to many WCW main eventers.

I think most wrestling fans will agree that Vince was never afraid to give main event opportunities in WWE to wrestlers who worked in WCW only as midcarders. Undertaker, Steve Austin, Mick Foley, Kevin Nash, Rey Mysterio, Chris Jericho, Chris Benoit (he was mostly a midcarder in WCW), and Eddie Guerrero all were WWE World Champions and had World Championship matches at WrestleMania. Scott Hall also became a very big deal in WWE. Maybe Vince just didn’t think utilizing WCW’s mid card talent was lending too much credibility to his competition, or that most fans did not strongly identify the WCW brand with those wrestlers. Whatever the reason, Vince certainly let middle of the card workers from WCW shine in WWE.

Before I discuss all the WCW stars Vince gave big opportunities to, I’ll talk about the ones he arguably tried to damage. Obviously, there was Dusty Rhodes, who Vince made dance, wear yellow polka dots, and have an overweight female valet named Sapphire. This was clearly trying to make WCW seem inferior by humiliating one of their biggest stars. However, Dusty did get some star treatment, as he worked a long program with Randy Savage. There was Sting, who lost his only two pay per view matches in WWE. But that’s an arguable example, as Sting was in his mid-fifties at the time. According to Sting on his WWE documentary, he thought his match with Triple H at WM 31 was going to be his last, so it’s understandable he put Triple H over. And in his second pay per view match against Seth Rollins, Rollins was the champion, so there was no shame in Sting losing to him.

Harley Race (actually coming from the NWA) wasn’t a main eventer in WWE, but he was old by the time he joined the company, and he was given the King of the Ring, so it’s not like he was treated like a nobody. Hogan was on top at the time and had a stranglehold on the title. Since feuds lasted longer back then there were obviously fewer of them, so there were less opportunities for wrestlers to work long programs with the champion. Although he did get to wrestle Hogan on a Saturday Night’s Main Event. Ricky Steamboat was sort of treated like a joke when he returned to WWE in the early nineties, taking his “dragon” gimmick to hokey level, even blowing fire before matches. Steamboat probably was sabotaged by Vince because he was a WCW main eventer.

There was arguably Scott Steiner who never won a World Title in WWE, but he had an atrocious match against Triple H at Royal Rumble 2003. Both men were wrestling hurt and Steiner got scapegoated for it, but I think that’s more favoritism towards the son in law than anything else. And besides, during that title reign Triple H also beat Booker T, Kane, Kevin Nash, Rob Van Dam, and won an Elimination Chamber. Speaking of Booker T, I feel the time when Booker was first starting with WWE as WCW Champion and hid under the commentator’s table from Kurt Angle was an attempt to bury the WCW brand, as was Rock saying “Who in the blue hell are you?” But over the long haul he probably wasn’t ready to be a World Champion in WWE until he became King Booker in 2006, and for what it’s worth he did win the title then. Regarding Diamond Dallas Page, it’s said they didn’t like his attitude backstage, and DDP said he reminded people backstage numerous times about how WCW almost put WWE out of business. DDP may have been an instance of trying to hurt the WCW brand, as he should have been more than a European Champion.

Not every example I listed was unarguably an instance of Vince McMahon trying to sabotage former WCW stars just because they came from the competition. But there’s enough possible instances that he probably did try with some of them. However, the point of this column is to show that Vince did not try to hurt every former WCW main eventer who signed with WWE. In fact, he gave big opportunities to many of them.

Sid first signed with WWE in 1991 and was part of that year’s Summer Slam main event, even if as just the guest referee. When Hulk Hogan made it known that he would be leaving WWE, it’s been said that Vince wanted Sid to replace him as the top face of the company, but Sid turned it down, thinking there was more money to be made as a heel. Sid did end up main eventing WrestleMania 8 in 1992 and quit the company shortly afterwards. Years later he returned and main evented a handful of pay per views including WrestleMania 13, his second WM main event. He won the World Title in late 1996 and won it again in early 1997, making him the champion going into WM 13.

Ric Flair was the WCW Champion before he left that company and he did not lose the title in a match. He was still in legal possession of the physical belt and brought it with him to WWE, making it look like the WWE really did have WCW’s Champion. This was a golden opportunity for Vince McMahon to bury the WCW brand by embarrassing Ric or simply making him a mid carder. But he was a main eventer from the start. He feuded with Roddy Piper and then won the WWE Title by winning the Royal Rumble. He was originally planned to main event WM 8 in 1992 with Hogan, but for reasons that are not clear, that didn’t happen. Flair was still champion going into that WM as part of a “Double Main Event”. He managed to win the title again later in the same year. When Flair returned to WWE in the early 2000’s he was mostly in the mid card, but by then he was in his fifties and a shell of his former self.

At Lex Luger’s first WrestleMania in 1993 he defeated Mr. Perfect. Then in the summer of that year he turned face out of nowhere and got a rocket push into the main event. He got an All-American gimmick and won Yokozuna’s body slam challenge. He main evented Summer Slam that year against Yokozuna and won by count out, failing to win the title. He then co-won the Royal Rumble with Bret Hart, and only because Bret Hart got more cheers than Lex did he lose his title match at WrestleMania 10. Vince did not sabotage Lex. He did nearly everything he could to make him the most popular wrestler in the company, but Bret was still better. Vince didn’t fail Lex. Lex just wasn’t good enough.

Vader main evented Summer Slam in 1996 against Shawn Michaels, but it drew a disappointing buy rate. He then was supposed to main event Survivor Series that year against Shawn Michaels, this time winning the title, with the plan being to drop it back to Shawn at the Royal Rumble in Shawn’s hometown. However, Shawn Michaels said no to those plans, and being the strong politician that he was at the time, he got his wish and Vader was replaced by Sid.

Big Show won the WWF title within his first 12 months with WWE and main evented WrestleMania 2000, but his crowd reactions were noticeably lesser than that of the other top stars, and he had to be removed from the main event scene. Overall he’s probably lost most of his matches in WWE, but every now and then he’s gotten to work with top names like Brock Lesnar, Triple H, Orton and Cena. He main evented several pay per views and won a handful of World Titles. Not too bad of a career.

Goldberg signed a one year contract in 2003 and defeated The Rock at his first pay per view, which he main evented. Many say he should have won the title at Summer Slam 03 in the Elimination Chamber match, and I agree, but he did win it a month later from Triple H, getting a clean win over him when he was seemingly unbeatable. The next pay per view Goldberg again defeated Triple H clean. In his last match during this run at WM 20, Goldberg defeated Brock Lesnar. For only having a one year contract, I’d say he was treated very well. Since Goldberg returned in 2016, he actually squashed the invincible Brock Lesnar, won the Universal Championship, main evented multiple pay per views, and had a world championship match at WrestleMania 33.

That’s 6 former WCW main eventers that Vince gave or wanted to give big opportunities to. He sabotaged some, but not most. And Of course, there was the Invasion storyline that could have been handled better. But I feel that was a direct attack on the WCW brand as a whole and wasn’t meant to single out any former WCW stars. Booker T didn’t fare well during this time and should have been booked less embarrassingly here and there, but many feel that overall he wasn’t ready then.

Vince McMahon’s critics will fault him for trying to bury or embarrass many former WCW stars. And while I will say he unarguably tried to embarrass some of them, you can make arguments for the others, and he clearly gave big opportunities to several of them. There are two sides to this coin, and Vince doesn’t get enough recognition for trying to push Ted Turner’s former top employees in his main event scene.
 
#112 · (Edited)
Narrowminded critics of professional wrestling, the ones who know virtually nothing about what we watch and think wrestlers don’t get hurt at all, will often say things to us fans like “Don’t you know it’s fake?” and “Those wrestlers wouldn’t be tough in a real fight.” Conor McGregor, one of the best pound for pound UFC fighters, said most WWE wrestlers are “pussies”. I never hear anyone point out that Sylvester Stallone is not a real boxer, yet this criticism is something professional wrestling deals with on a regular basis. Then every so often someone big, really big, from a legitimate combat sport enters the WWE and it offers us fans a name that non-fans will recognize that can help legitimize pro wrestling. WWE actually has a good handful of legitimately tough men and women, with the two most accomplished being former UFC Champions Brock Lesnar and Ronda Rousey. But long before Brock and Ronda, there was the first UFC Champion to step foot in a WWE ring. The “World’s Most Dangerous Man”, the man who came in 15 years too soon, Ken Shamrock.

Ken Shamrock had a very decent career in WWE for the 3 years he worked there. But he did not get the star treatment that Brock Lesnar and Ronda Rousey have received in recent years. He never attained a WWE World Championship, never main evented WrestleMania, in fact he only main evented 1 pay per view in a singles match, In Your House: Degeneration X against Shawn Michaels. But why exactly did Shamrock never reach the levels of pro wrestling stardom that Brock and Ronda have? In my opinion, it’s because he arrived 15 years too early.

When Ken first entered WWE in 1997, he brought with him all the believability in the world. Most fans were always highly suspicious of pro wrestling being a real sport or not, and with WWE pulling back the curtain in 1997 with several on-air shoot promos, there was no doubt in anyone’s mind that wrestling was staged. However, no one questioned the legitimacy of the Ultimate Fighting Championship. Everyone knew that was a real combat sport and Ken Shamrock was a former Champion. ABC News called him “The World’s Most Dangerous Man”. However, just being a believable fighter will only take you so far, and combat sport credentials are not a substitute for charisma. Look at how Daniel Puder and Sylvester Terkay fared in WWE. Even Dan Severn, who held the UFC Championship and beat Shamrock in the UFC, barely had a career in WWE. Accomplished amateur wrestlers like Shelton Benjamin, Charlie Hass, Jesse Jordan and Chad Gable never came close to being main eventers in WWE. Luckily for Shamrock, he actually had more charisma than those guys, as well as a better look.

Ken initially sort of had an MMA in ring style when he had his first match against Vader, going for double leg take downs and doing several submissions (the rules were you won by knock out or submission). But he soon adapted a mostly traditional pro wrestling style, really only keeping his MMA fighting stance (arms outstretched and bent, one farther out than the other) when he was standing, and tried submission holds every now and then. Even his Lion’s Den matches looked like pro wrestling, using Irish whips and even spring boarding off the sides of the cage. Overall, when he was given enough time for his matches, they were usually very respectable compared to most matches of the nineties.

Sometime during 1997 was probably his best opportunity to become WWE Champion. The storylines were less over the top that year as opposed to what they would become the following year. In my opinion, most of 1997 was much more of a professional wrestling product and grounded in relatively more realistic storylines compared to the full-blown sports entertainment product we would soon get. The top wrestlers that year were Bret Hart, Shawn Michaels, Undertaker and Steve Austin. Vince McMahon was waiting for next year’s WrestleMania to put the title on Austin. And from a financial perspective, none of the other three were ever really big draws. Shamrock had a very reasonable chance of becoming World Champion sometime during that year. Shamrock seemed like a great choice for Bret to drop the title to when he was on his way out and he was adamant about not dropping the title to Shawn Michaels. There are too many conflicting reports about what went on backstage leading into the Montreal Screw Job, so I can’t comment on exactly why that didn’t happen.

However, when 1998 came along and Austin won the title, it became a more over the top product suited for outrageous characters. The rebellious Austin, the evil boss Vince McMahon, the satanic worshiping Undertaker and Kane, the goofy Mankind, the immoral Degeneration X, The Rock who referred to himself in the third person… Shamrock didn’t fit in. His straight up intense, bad ass persona didn’t give him enough character depth for the storylines that Vince Russo was writing. Ken didn’t have much range as an actor, pretty much only being able to convincingly display the emotion of anger. Watching his promos, it was clear that mic work did not come natural to him. He did score 4 clean falls over The Rock on pay per view when Rock was Intercontinental Champion, but each time either the decision got reversed or the title was not on the line. He did win the King of the Ring in 1998, but after Summer Slam that year it was clear that Mankind and The Rock were the next rising stars in town, not Ken.

In the summer of 1998 WWE had a Brawl For All tournament, a shoot tournament where the participants boxed and attempted takedowns. This was not the same rules as UFC as they wore boxing gloves and there were no submissions. There are conflicting reports that Shamrock wasn’t allowed to participate and also that he refused to be in it because he didn’t like the rules. It was said that legit tough guy Dr. Death Steve Williams was brought in specifically to win this tournament, which would then propel him towards a main event feud with Austin. Even if Williams did win the tourney and feuded with Austin, he still would have looked out of place in the main event scene as he did not have an over the top character. WWE did virtually nothing with him after he lost, and the other wrestlers that Bart Gunn knocked out still had decent careers afterwards. Even if Shamrock had been in this tournament and won, it wouldn’t have made much of a difference for him, in my opinion. He wouldn’t be proving anything we didn’t already know about him, and on an entertainment level he still wouldn’t have been able to hang with the likes of Austin, Mankind, Rock and Vince McMahon.


When Shamrock turned heel and became just another henchman in the Corporation, it was all downhill for him. In January of 1999 he had his first clean loss to Billy Gunn, who had mostly been a tag wrestler. He won the Intercontinental Title, but around that time so did Val Venis, Road Dogg and Godfather. In late 1999 Shamrock left WWE to go back into MMA.

When Brock Lesnar returned in 2012, the storylines were not nearly as outrageous as they were during the Attitude Era, generally speaking. Cena was the face of the company and a lot of his storylines revolved around him having too much pride to lose his next match. Shamrock’s straight up bad ass persona would fit in perfectly in today’s era, as that’s basically the same character that Lesnar and Rousey have currently. Most wrestlers today give scripted promos, so Shamrock would have writers coming up with his promo material and would probably fare better on the microphone. Like I said before, combat sport credentials only take you so far in WWE. They are not a substitute for charisma and a good look, but Shamrock had those things. If only he had been in his prime and dominant in the UFC in the late 2000’s or afterwards, making a name for himself as one of the toughest men on the planet during the Obama administration, and then came over to WWE, things would have been much different for him. Ken would have faced a completely different landscape much more suited to his generic tough guy character and limited acting ability.

But another reason why Shamrock arrived in WWE 15 years too soon is because when he was making a name for himself as a legend in UFC in the nineties, the UFC was much less popular then as opposed to now. Boxing was still by far the most popular combat sport, and the Heavyweight Division was still thriving. Evander Holyfield, Mike Tyson, Lennox Lewis, Riddick Bowe and George Foreman were all household names during that time period, and most people had no idea who Ken Shamrock and Dan Severn were. There’s a reason why Mike Tyson’s involvement in WrestleMania 14 made the ppv buy rate skyrocket from the previous year’s WrestleMania (it wasn’t just because of Austin). When the Heavyweight Division in boxing fizzled out, UFC started to rise dramatically in the pay per view market. When Brock returned in 2012, his star power was initially much stronger, drawing big numbers for Extreme Rules and Summer Slam that year. That increase in drawing power was due to him having won the UFC Heavyweight Championship when the UFC had become very popular. If Ronda Rousey had not been such a dominant women’s champion in UFC when she was, there’s no way she would have main evented WrestleMania this year.

Sports fans like to compare athletes from different eras of the same sport, and because professional sports evolve over time, there’s no accurate way to do that. Would Babe Ruth have hit as many homeruns if he played baseball during today’s era and faced today’s pitching? We don’t know that. If Michael Jordan was in his prime today would he be better than LeBron James? We’ll never know. And there’s no way to know how Ken Shamrock would do if he was taken from the nineties and transplanted into today’s UFC. Would he adapt to today’s competition and win the UFC Heavyweight Championship? Could he beat Randy Couture like Lesnar did?

Ken Shamrock is certainly one of the most credible wrestlers in WWE history. Having been a UFC Champion, there was no question that he was double tough. But truth be told, he didn’t have the star power that Brock Lesnar and Ronda Rousey have today. He came along at the wrong time, facing a WWE landscape that was not suited for him and being dominant in UFC before it was really popular. We can only wonder how much more successful Ken Shamrock would have been if he hadn’t been 15 years too soon.
 
#114 ·
Ken Shamrock was perfect for the time he entered into WWE. Not only that, he was used properly. Unlike how they used Ronda and that debacle. She destroyed the entire women's division and everything they built up for years. Only just now, they are starting to wash away that travesty and get things back on track.

Never compare Shamrock to Ronda. He did a lot in the WWE, and didn't look like superman in process. He didn't get the star treatment and actually earned everything he did in the WWE.
 
#116 ·
was a big shamrock fan, loved him. great look, great attire also

however he was used just right, that being upper mid-card/border line main event

he never had the charisma or mic skills to be top boy in wwf

unless he had a brief one or two month reign as a heel champ with someone like cornette talking for him...he was never sniffing the big belt
 
#117 ·
I've always thought that he was ahead of his time. The only problem I see here is he was overshadowed by a lot of people in the later years that I thought they should have at least pulled the trigger earlier on when he was so over in 1997. They could have given him a brief world title run as well. Or maybe in another scenario, what if he arrived later? Maybe 2001-2003? Would that have been the right time? I don't know either. I've always hoped to see him come back to the WWE but I guess they've moved on from him, I find it sad that he doesn't even have a HOF induction.
 
#118 · (Edited)
While Shamrock lacked mic skills, he had tons of believability and enough charisma to be a main eventer in 1997. But not during the Attitude Era, as there was too much competition from Rock, Austin, Foley, and later Triple H. If he had been dominant in UFC in say 2009 when it was much more popular and then came to WWE, he would certainly be a top guy, maybe main eventing WrestleMania.
 
#120 · (Edited)
For professional wrestlers, it’s almost always considered a good thing to be big. Over the years we’ve seen an increase in smaller wrestlers getting top spots in WWE, but there will always be a place for the big man. It’s why someone as talentless as The Great Khali even had a career in WWE and why Big Show has been employed by the company for an astounding twenty years. However, most big men are generally considered to be below average workers by Dave Meltzer and most wrestling fans who like to criticize the product. In today’s era, live audiences have become more demanding for great in ring work and are never afraid to chant “BORING” during horrible matches. While wrestling is still a big man’s business, it has been gradually moving out of their wheelhouse and it’s not their fault.

Back in the 80’s, WWE was filled with big men. Andre The Giant, King Kong Bundy, Hercules Hernandez, Earthquake, Tugboat, Bam Bam Bigelow, Big Boss Man, Warlord, Hulk Hogan, Big John Studd, Akeem, and so on. Most (not all) of them were not having great matches regularly. But at the time it didn’t matter. Most people back then figured wrestling was probably staged, but the business was hardly exposed at all then, which made people have a stronger suspension of disbelief. While they were watching the show, they believed King Kong Bundy had injured Hogan’s ribs and that Andre and Big John Studd were really trying to body slam each other to win $15,000. Fans watched the matches like they were a legit competition, like any other sport, and they believed that bigger, stronger wrestlers truly had an advantage. They believed a punch from the 350 lb. Bam Bam Bigelow hurt much more than a punch from the roughly 220 lb. Marty Jannetty.

Fast forward to today, and kayfabe is dead. Out of character documentaries on the WWE Network, shoot interviews on YouTube, dirt sheets that discuss backstage rumors… everyone understands wrestling is staged. And of course, this has led to a significant decrease for most fans’ suspension of disbelief. Today, everyone knows the wrestlers are not partaking in a legit competition and most wrestlers are not trying to hurt each other. Don’t get me wrong, wrestlers get hurt all time because that’s the nature of their profession. But most wrestlers aren’t actively trying to hurt each other more than they need to. In fact, they know most are trying to protect each other in the ring. People realize a running power slam from Braun Strowman probably hurts just as much as it would if Seth Rollins did the same exact move to the same wrestler. Because it’s well known that matches are predetermined, no one really beats anyone and therefore big wrestlers don’t have an advantage.

In football, there are different positions that require different types of athleticism. Wide receivers need to be very fast, so they are slimmer than the offensive linemen, who need to be big and powerful. Odell Beckham gets to use the full extent of his speed, and Jason Peters uses the full extent of his strength. And while sports entertainment also has spots for wrestlers of all different shapes and sizes, when it comes to in ring work the big wrestlers are shackled. Smaller guys like Rey Mysterio and Seth Rollins can do exciting moves that show off their quickness and agility, like the 619 and the Phoenix Splash. Wrestlers like Chad Gable and Kurt Angle are small enough that they can do amazing technical wrestling, rapidly going from hold to hold in a succession of chain wrestling. But the bigger, stronger wrestlers generally cannot use all their force when they are slamming their opponents or doing any kind of offensive moves to them.

There were some big wrestlers like Vader, Ryback, Ahmed Johnson and Mabel who used the full extent of their power and size on their opponents, and some of their offense was very fun to watch. They weren’t always great at constructing exciting matches overall, but they had plenty of moments where they shined in the ring. When Vader’s opponents were stationary in the corner, he would go to town on them and punch them as hard as he possibly could. Ahmed Johnson would do his Pearl River Plunge and axe kick with devastating force and Ryback looked like he was going to take someone’s head off with his Meat Hook clothesline. Mabel did a move where he was standing over top of an opponent who was face down on the mat and would kick his legs out, dropping his 500 lb. frame onto the small of their back. It looked like it hurt like hell because it did.

This was very entertaining from the fans’ perspective and it did help those guys get over with the fans. But it came at a price. A lot of wrestlers hated working with Vader. Mick Foley said preliminary wrestlers in WCW would sometimes quit to get out wrestling him. Harley Race, his manager, told him if he didn’t ease up on his opponents, he would have no one to work with. Shawn Michaels even used Vader’s stiffness as an excuse to get out of working another program with him in late 96-early 97. Ahmed Johnson had a bad reputation backstage for failing to protect his opponents. Ryback gave Dolph Ziggler a serious concussion one time and he too had a reputation for not protecting his opponents, but in his case, he also made major mistakes in the ring unrelated to his power. Diesel, the champion, was pissed off at Mabel at Summer Slam 95 for doing his sit out drop on him, and he also got a lot of heat backstage when he broke Undertaker’s orbital bone. Not every wrestler is like Tommy Dreamer and Mick Foley where they have an extremely high pain tolerance and are willing to take huge amounts of punishment. Most wrestlers do not want to step in the ring with someone like Vader.

Now, as a fan, obviously I don’t feel the pain the wrestlers do and just watch as a spectator, and I do find it very entertaining. A lot of fans do. It’s part of why Vader was so over in WCW. But large wrestlers simply shouldn’t wrestle like that on a regular basis. Yes, it puts big men at a disadvantage because they can not use their size and strength the way smaller wrestlers use their speed and agility, but that’s just the way it is. Brock is said to wrestle very stiff during his matches, and while Roman Reigns said (I believe it was a shoot) he was sore for weeks after his WrestleMania 31 match with him, Brock only wrestles a few matches a year, so in his case it’s not really a big deal. But someone like Big Show who was wrestling every week needs to hold back or else he might seriously hurt someone. When Yokozuna did his Banzai drop, his feet usually hit the mat first and didn’t let go of the ropes until after he landed. He had to do this or else he would have killed people.

The only times big wrestlers get to display their strength safely are when they are wrestling someone 300 lbs. or more and they do power moves to them. In my opinion, it was always fun watching Brock Lesnar F-5 Big Show or Mark Henry or watching Big Show gorilla press slam Kane like he was nothing. Ryback impressed a lot of people when he got Big Show in position for the Shell Shock. Big Show getting superplexed off the top rope and the ring imploding has been overdone, but it’s always awesome to watch. Sometimes in segments big men will be shown doing something over the top to display their strength, like when Big Show pulled down the Titan Tron and when Kane and Lesnar removed the Hell In A Cell door from it’s hinges. The fans can usually tell these objects are gimmicked and it just looks hokey (although the ring imploding for Big Show always got great reactions).

There are some big men who actually are/were good workers and wrestled safely, but in most cases they had great mobility for someone their size. Bam Bam Bigelow, Undertaker and Kane come to mind. Yokozuna was fun to watch because he moved around very well for someone who was 600 lbs. But we as fans should not criticize big men for not being as agile as wrestlers like this, because not everyone has that God given talent. It’s unreasonable to expect Braun Strowman to wrestle like Ricochet, and his opponents sure as hell don’t want him to wrestle like Ryback. Although there is a certain level that they can be held to. They should not be as bad as Giant Gonzalez and the Great Khali. But generally speaking, I think we all need to give most big men a pass on their in-ring work.


Some big men add another dynamic to their matches by no selling their opponent’s offense or selling to a significantly lesser degree than most other wrestlers would, and in turn their opponents sell everything they do to a higher degree than they would most other wrestlers. Like I said before, wrestling fans now realize that the wrestlers are really trying to protect each other in the ring, but suspension of disbelief is still somewhat alive. This makes the big men seem like beasts when they’re wrestling, like they’re not ordinary men. When WWE does do this with certain big men, they usually do it at the beginning of their WWE career and they gradually begin to sell more for their opponents and their opponents sell less for them. This was the case for Undertaker, Kane, Ryback and Braun Strowman when they first started in WWE. Braun has come down a little bit from when he first started.

This is interesting at first, because they seem like an extremely tough challenge for most wrestlers, and when they finally do face someone who fans think might beat them, it leads to an intriguing match. When Undertaker faced Kane for the first time and Kane was barely selling for anyone, it was a huge deal because everyone thought Taker might be the guy to beat him. Every punch, every kick, leg drop, choke slam, every move in that match felt like it meant more. You could also see this the times when Hulk Hogan was in the ring with Zeus, who even no sold chair shots. However, this can’t go on forever because if a big man no sells for everyone for a long enough time, he would quickly bury many guys on the roster and fans would get tired of it. Brock Lesnar currently employs this dynamic in most of his matches (not against Braun Strowman or Undertaker), but because he only wrestles a few times a year he’s not really damaging too much of the roster. And judging by some of the crowd reactions he’s gotten, you could argue some fans have gotten tired of this already. In my opinion, this element usually makes certain big men's matches more entertaining at first, but it wouldn't keep up forever, which is why you usually see many of them eventually remove this dynamic for the most part.

Today we are living in a time where kayfabe is dead, and therefore everyone knows wrestlers aren’t usually trying to hurt each other in the ring, but generally are trying to protect each other. Because of this, we know that big men do not really have an advantage in the ring, making it seem like their moves mostly do not hurt anymore than those of smaller wrestlers. However, some big men choose to wrestle using the full extent of their strength and while it is entertaining for fans, it causes real life problems for them and everyone they work with. The only times they do get to display all their strength is when they do power moves to 300 plus lb. wrestlers. But overall, big men have a disadvantage as far as putting on good matches and it’s not always their fault.
 
#121 ·
The best way for most big men to get over is to throw out the expectations of making them do things they normally wouldn't or shouldn't do in a ring and just beat the shit out of people.

That's why guys like Stan Hansen had a successful career.

The exception is if you're one of those rare big men who are at Undertaker or Kane level that can do miraculous things for their size in the ring.

One thing you cannot do is work like Hulk Hogan anymore and expect yourself as a big man to get over. It just doesn't fly anymore.
 
#123 ·
Two recent big men matches I saw that were good..

Keith Lee v Dominik Dijakovic on the most recent NXT show. Really a very good match. Both guys got to use their size and power as well as show off their agility.

Dave Mastiff v Joe Coffey last man standing match on the NXTUK takeover. This more your classic, hard hitting, big man brawl and they told a good story while they did it.

Just my two cents, a big guy most often isn't going to be able to a bunch of the flips and jumps popular today and that's fine. Fiips and jumps don't necessary make a match good. It is good if a big guy can pull one out every so often. A 200 lb guy coming off the top rope doesn't mean anything these days because it happens so much. A 300lb + guy doing still can mean something.

Beyond that, a big guy needs to be able to tell a story in the ring probably even more than a smaller guy. He doesn't have 400 flips and 500 flops to wow the crowd with. Because of his size his move-set may be more limited, and that is OK. Make 'em believe that a clothes-line with 300lbs behind is gonna hurt a little more. than one with 200lb behind it.
 
#124 ·
A big man needs to be believable. They need to feel like they're an athletic, legitimate threat rather than a lumbering lummox who smaller wrestlers can run rings around. Compare Big Van Vader, Earthquake, Kane or Undertaker to goofballs such as Snitsky, The Great Khali, Akeem or Vladimir Kozlov.
 
#125 ·
Here's a near perfect example of how a limited big bruiser should look in the ring against 95% of guys he faces.





The thing about guys like Snitsky and Khali is that even they can do they limited things they do in the ring as long as they tell they story well enough that the viewers understands it psychologically. If the viewer is watching a Snitsky or Khali match and expecting a modified STF to Dragon Sleeper to appear in it, he's just someone who's got the wrong idea what the match's purpose is for.

Andre was one of those lumbering lummoxes a lot of people talk about, but he did a whole lot with what little he had, and that's the mark of a good performer in the business.
 
#126 · (Edited)
Its not the lack of clinical classics that's the problem, its the lack of effort in general, the lack of ****s given, the line hopping up the card, the generic ring gear, the time killing and the lack of room at the top for anything else but

smaller fighters are making far and away more money than than "true heavyweights"

we need more ring technicians like Lesnar and Lashley
 
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