The point of being a heel, and why it has lost its meaning: An Analysis - Page 3 - Wrestling Forum: WWE, AEW, New Japan, Indy Wrestling, Women of Wrestling Forums

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post #21 of 23 (permalink) Old 09-27-2018, 08:53 AM
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Re: The point of being a heel, and why it has lost its meaning: An Analysis

Kayfabe is dead.

Fans cheer for the actors, not the characters.

Big difference.

This could be easily fixed by developing meaningful characters and storylines.

Wrestling 101.

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post #22 of 23 (permalink) Old 09-27-2018, 09:13 AM
 
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Re: The point of being a heel, and why it has lost its meaning: An Analysis

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Originally Posted by RBrooks View Post
Come on now. That's ridiculous. Both turns happened for the sake of the other guy/girl. That's wrong reason in my book. Especially Braun, because it killed him, he's not over. Becky is at least really popular now, for Braun people just don't care anymore (as far as I've seen).
I certainly wish they hadn't been turned to get the other person over, but I'm saying that those turns helped WWE push their narrative, tell their story. For WWE's purpose those turns were needed and made sense. And, there's also long term considerations. Becky recovered with her title win, getting over with the crowd. If this was WWE's plan from the start of the turn, then I'd say it had a good reason. OP made this thread a week after Becky turned, complaining about it, trying to give a "good turn" a set of standards by using Becky's as the failed example.

2 weeks later, WWE shows they did have a plan/reason for the turn. OP cried too soon.

I was saying that OP's guidelines to a turn are not true. His half ass attempt to make an "analysis" didn't work. He's just a mark looking for a place to whine. I'd be happy to talk about our opinions on people turning face/heel, but not pretending OP's opinions are standards for a successful turn.

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FUCK THIS COMPANY! FUCK ROMAN REIGNS! FUCK WWE! THIS WILL END WITH ROMAN BEATING UP THE HEELS AND THEN SCREAMING LIKE A DEMONICALLY POSSESSED LOLITA UINTIL OUR TV SCREENS BLOW UP!
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post #23 of 23 (permalink) Old 09-28-2018, 11:51 AM Thread Starter
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Re: The point of being a heel, and why it has lost its meaning: An Analysis

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Originally Posted by OwenSES View Post
That's an extreme example, other heel turns are probably based on freshening things up for the superstar but I really don't think there is any long term thought and planning in most of these things. Did Sami Zayn saving Kevin Owens really make sense after everything they had been through?
The rest of your post is fine. Brooks already covered it and said most of the things I'd probably say, so I'll talk about these parts.

One of the tricky things with heel turns is that you, as a fan, have to find something about it to put into question. It shouldn't be something that you can make full sense of and say "yeah, I can understand why he did this" unless it comes down to a negative aspect in their line of thinking. In Sami's case, he did it because he saw the success Owens had compared to him, and thought he was doing everything all wrong. He thought maybe playing the good guy wasn't the right call. He also felt Shane wasn't giving him the same opportunities that he was giving Owens.

Now sure, from a logic standpiont, you can just say "why not go to Shane and ask for more opportunities, and/or ask what can I do to get better?" And maybe he did and they just didn't play on it. But either way, it comes down to Sami making a choice.

There are other factors as well, the main one being the history between Owens and Zayn, as you mentioned before. That's what gives fans a reason to hate Zayn even more. They know he's selling out by reigniting his friendship with Owens for the sake of success.

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Originally Posted by OwenSES View Post
Did Seth Rollins turning on The Shield really make sense?
Same thing but with different reasoning. You could have it come down to a multitude of reasons and they simply chose power and fortune and success as the reason for Rollins. He felt that he needed to branch away from the Shield to truly reach his potential, and in order to maximize it, he needed to be part of the Authority.

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Originally Posted by cesaro_ROCKS View Post
I certainly wish they hadn't been turned to get the other person over, but I'm saying that those turns helped WWE push their narrative, tell their story. For WWE's purpose those turns were needed and made sense. And, there's also long term considerations. Becky recovered with her title win, getting over with the crowd. If this was WWE's plan from the start of the turn, then I'd say it had a good reason. OP made this thread a week after Becky turned, complaining about it, trying to give a "good turn" a set of standards by using Becky's as the failed example.

2 weeks later, WWE shows they did have a plan/reason for the turn. OP cried too soon.

I was saying that OP's guidelines to a turn are not true. His half ass attempt to make an "analysis" didn't work. He's just a mark looking for a place to whine. I'd be happy to talk about our opinions on people turning face/heel, but not pretending OP's opinions are standards for a successful turn.
You have now reduced yourself to doing the exact thing you claimed I was doing in the OP: crying and spouting nonsense. Not to mention 95% of what you said here can easily be disproven just by quoting statements made by my original post and others through out the thread.

You're now on the ignore list. If you can't have reasonable conversations without resorting to bitching about other people because someone out there disagreed with you, then the ignore list is where you rightfully belong.



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