In Defense of: The Dave Batista Wrestlemania 30 Decision - Page 2 - Wrestling Forum: WWE, AEW, New Japan, Indy Wrestling, Women of Wrestling Forums

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post #11 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-13-2018, 04:15 AM Thread Starter
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Re: In Defense of: The Dave Batista Wrestlemania 30 Decision

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I would like to see you analising Batista himself since I think he's a poor wrestler in every aspect.
I might go back to individual analysis threads down the road. The problem with doing them is that they take a lot of time to do, since I usually spend hours doing as much research as I can before making the threads, just to get myself some refreshment on their skill sets. People like John Cena, AJ Styles and Edge were easier to do as my memory of what they did was a lot more recent, but people like the Rock, Austin and Savage took a lot of time to give a proper analysis for. And don't even get me started on how big of a bitch doing one for Flair was.

Batista would probably be pretty easy, because like the first three mentioned, a lot of his work is more recent. If I get some time down the road, I will consider it.

For what it's worth, based on my own interpretation and knowledge of him now, I would actually say that he was a very good in-ring performer who performed pretty well in the character department. His mic skills were always his weakness, but even then he was able to bring a lot of intensity on the mic that we just don't see much in this day and age. Even if he wasn't necessarily the best talker and was about as basic as they got, he still came off as a legitimate bad ass with every promo that he had. He knew how to let things play out, he paid attention to crowd reactions and his delivery was always very good. All in all, I would say he was actually very good across the board. But again, this is before I do any research and is based on what I remember.
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post #12 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-13-2018, 09:18 AM
 
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Re: In Defense of: The Dave Batista Wrestlemania 30 Decision

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Originally Posted by AlternateDemise View Post
I might go back to individual analysis threads down the road. The problem with doing them is that they take a lot of time to do, since I usually spend hours doing as much research as I can before making the threads, just to get myself some refreshment on their skill sets. People like John Cena, AJ Styles and Edge were easier to do as my memory of what they did was a lot more recent, but people like the Rock, Austin and Savage took a lot of time to give a proper analysis for. And don't even get me started on how big of a bitch doing one for Flair was.

Batista would probably be pretty easy, because like the first three mentioned, a lot of his work is more recent. If I get some time down the road, I will consider it.

For what it's worth, based on my own interpretation and knowledge of him now, I would actually say that he was a very good in-ring performer who performed pretty well in the character department. His mic skills were always his weakness, but even then he was able to bring a lot of intensity on the mic that we just don't see much in this day and age. Even if he wasn't necessarily the best talker and was about as basic as they got, he still came off as a legitimate bad ass with every promo that he had. He knew how to let things play out, he paid attention to crowd reactions and his delivery was always very good. All in all, I would say he was actually very good across the board. But again, this is before I do any research and is based on what I remember.

I'll rewatch his matches to see if I change my opinion. Anyway, your work here is amazing.
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post #13 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-16-2018, 05:07 AM
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Re: In Defense of: The Dave Batista Wrestlemania 30 Decision

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post #14 of 23 (permalink) Old 06-01-2018, 03:33 PM
 
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Re: In Defense of: The Dave Batista Wrestlemania 30 Decision

Good article. I think Batista came back at the wrong time, though. Just a year earlier The Rock temporarily returned to the WWE, ended Punk's epic WWE title reign, and then left again immediately after dropping the title to John Cena in their second consecutive Wrestlemania main event. The idea of another part-timer temporarily coming back to the WWE to take the championship, main event Wrestlemania, and beat some hard working full-timers was a bad idea to begin with, as it kind of left a sour taste in a lot of fans mouths - especially as Daniel Bryan's popularity was booming at the time. To a lot of fans, Batista was taking a spot that they percieved to be D-Bry's, in much the same way that The Rock had 'stolen' CM Punk's Wrestlemania main event a year earlier. I did feel a bit sorry for Batista, as he faced a lot of criticism upon his return and took a lot of shit, but all he ended up doing was put people over.

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post #15 of 23 (permalink) Old 09-16-2019, 02:32 PM
 
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The idea sucked because you had a guy who the people absolutely loved who was getting crapped on (evidently behind the scenes as well as on-screen) and that was the person they wanted to see have the storybook ending leaving Wrestlemania as champion...the perfect culmination to the months long story they even tried to derail as they put Bryan in the Wyatt Family.

They were forced to go back to Bryan as a way to (attempt) to silence the CM Punk chants that echoed throughout every show in almost every match. Orton (even then) was past his time as a compelling character and no one was crying for Batista to return. Plus, the Batista vs. Orton and backstory crap already took place years ago. SO, no one was willing to see that as the Main Event of a milestone Wrestlemania when you had a guy that the people absolutely loved!!!
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post #16 of 23 (permalink) Old 09-21-2019, 03:34 PM
 
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Re: In Defense of: The Dave Batista Wrestlemania 30 Decision

Oh sure AlternateDemise, WWE are always "forced" by invisible gunpoint to make bad decisions when they have all the time and money in the world to make up any difference it may have made, having a monopoly and whatnot

Batista is a disrespectful prick who never deserved his place to begin with



He just got lucky.

EDIT: wcw rejected him, maybe there's a reason

Despite what you may have heard about so-called "smark marks" and the "IWC" some of us are actually here to help. All you have to do is ask.

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As a kid I wanted to believe it was real but back then we had real fights in school and I went to sling this guy into a pole like wrestlers would do when they threw guys into the ropes and the kid didnít move and when I tried it again he punched me, I knew then that wrestlers were working together in the ring.
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It's insane that we're going to applaud a wrestling company for doing this.
It should be 100% standard across pro wrestling.
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And the minute you compromise that for a check, I can't feel sorry for you. You got what you wanted, therefore you got what you deserved.

Last edited by Greatsthegreats; 09-21-2019 at 03:36 PM.
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post #17 of 23 (permalink) Old 09-22-2019, 04:08 PM Thread Starter
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Re: In Defense of: The Dave Batista Wrestlemania 30 Decision

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Oh sure AlternateDemise, WWE are always "forced" by invisible gunpoint to make bad decisions when they have all the time and money in the world to make up any difference it may have made, having a monopoly and whatnot
...when did I ever claim that?

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Batista is a disrespectful prick who never deserved his place to begin with

Maybe he didn't deserve it. But he was most certainly a better fit for it.

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He just got lucky.
Yeah, a lot of the top guys in the Pro Wrestling industry got "lucky".

Steve Austin: Arguably the most talented Pro Wrestler of all time. Only got his big break because the kliq broke kayfabe at a live event and a fan just so happened to have a camera to take a picture of it. And due to very specific circumstances, Triple H ended up being the one punished for it. Because of this, he lost his king of the ring push that went to Austin. Without the king of the ring moment, Austin's 3:16 promo that helped propel him to stardom never happens.

The Rock: Started out his WWF career in arguably the worst way possible with a babyface gimmick that got him booed by audiences during a time when face/heel dynamics were very much alive. A gimmick change, and being around at the right time period (the Attitude Era) allowed him to thrive and bounce back from the awful beginning.

John Cena: According to Cena, he was almost cut multiple times. But then the rapper gimmick happened and he found his calling, and was able to become one of WWE's hottest acts and top faces. Realizing something like that could work was nothing more than a happy accident.

Daniel Bryan: Bryan got his yes chant idea by watching a UFC fighters entrance. And even then, things didn't truly take off for him until the infamous Wrestlemania 28 match, one of WWE's greatest fuck ups that ended up benefiting them. Bryan never would have even sniffed a Wrestlemania main event had it not been for that and the insane amount of fan support he received around the world. WWE had no choice.

But my favorite one out of most?

Edge: Despite him being one of my all time favorites, he did an absolutely shitty thing in having an affair with Lita. And this ended up making him extremely hated among the WWE fan base. And it was because of this that Edge quickly became the top heel in WWE and would end up being one of their top guys for many more years until his retirement.

Not everyone who became successful top acts in the WWE got there out of hard work and dedication (not saying none of these guys did but that's not why they got where they ended up). It took very specific circumstances and simply being at the right place at the right time for their rise to stardom to happen. Batista is not the only one to have this happen to him.

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EDIT: wcw rejected him, maybe there's a reason
Yes, because now we're going to base someone's worth entirely off of whether or not WCW rejected them. I guess Steve Austin wasn't all that great right?



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post #18 of 23 (permalink) Old 09-23-2019, 03:44 AM
 
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Re: In Defense of: The Dave Batista Wrestlemania 30 Decision

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...when did I ever claim that?
just about every other sympathizer does

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Maybe he didn't deserve it. But he was most certainly a better fit for it.
a better fit? i guess we'll never know. still doesn't change the fact that Evolution shouldn't have existed in the first place

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Originally Posted by AlternateDemise View Post


Yeah, a lot of the top guys in the Pro Wrestling industry got "lucky".

Steve Austin: Arguably the most talented Pro Wrestler of all time. Only got his big break because the kliq broke kayfabe at a live event and a fan just so happened to have a camera to take a picture of it. And due to very specific circumstances, Triple H ended up being the one punished for it. Because of this, he lost his king of the ring push that went to Austin. Without the king of the ring moment, Austin's 3:16 promo that helped propel him to stardom never happens.

The Rock: Started out his WWF career in arguably the worst way possible with a babyface gimmick that got him booed by audiences during a time when face/heel dynamics were very much alive. A gimmick change, and being around at the right time period (the Attitude Era) allowed him to thrive and bounce back from the awful beginning.

John Cena: According to Cena, he was almost cut multiple times. But then the rapper gimmick happened and he found his calling, and was able to become one of WWE's hottest acts and top faces. Realizing something like that could work was nothing more than a happy accident.

Daniel Bryan: Bryan got his yes chant idea by watching a UFC fighters entrance. And even then, things didn't truly take off for him until the infamous Wrestlemania 28 match, one of WWE's greatest fuck ups that ended up benefiting them. Bryan never would have even sniffed a Wrestlemania main event had it not been for that and the insane amount of fan support he received around the world. WWE had no choice.

But my favorite one out of most?

Edge: Despite him being one of my all time favorites, he did an absolutely shitty thing in having an affair with Lita. And this ended up making him extremely hated among the WWE fan base. And it was because of this that Edge quickly became the top heel in WWE and would end up being one of their top guys for many more years until his retirement.
Stone Cold admits that he benefited from the Curtain Call, that wasn't his doing or anyone's intention, that was luck

The Rock, okay you got me there but then again pro wrestling WASN'T his first choice

Cena, can you really see the rise of The Faux Commando if WCW was still around?

Bryan was defiantly lucky, lucky that WWE's attempted burial of him (not Sheamus's fault) backfired

Edge should have been pushed to the main event back 2002, i did a whole thread on that, my first one in fact, but he didn't, he was lucky that WWE prefer drama over wholesomeness hence why they exploited his real life affair as if he needed it

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlternateDemise View Post
Not everyone who became successful top acts in the WWE got there out of hard work and dedication (not saying none of these guys did but that's not why they got where they ended up). It took very specific circumstances and simply being at the right place at the right time for their rise to stardom to happen. Batista is not the only one to have this happen to him.
Baista wasn't the only one but he was one of many who shouldn't have, but hey that's Wallstreet for ya

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Originally Posted by AlternateDemise View Post
Yes, because now we're going to base someone's worth entirely off of whether or not WCW rejected them. I guess Steve Austin wasn't all that great right?
Technically Stone Cold wasn't rejected, they brought him on board and gave him a chance, Batista didn't even get a dark match, even WWE told him to train more first

Despite what you may have heard about so-called "smark marks" and the "IWC" some of us are actually here to help. All you have to do is ask.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wpm131 View Post
As a kid I wanted to believe it was real but back then we had real fights in school and I went to sling this guy into a pole like wrestlers would do when they threw guys into the ropes and the kid didnít move and when I tried it again he punched me, I knew then that wrestlers were working together in the ring.
Quote:
Originally Posted by I AM Glacier View Post
It's insane that we're going to applaud a wrestling company for doing this.
It should be 100% standard across pro wrestling.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jupiter Jack Daniels View Post
And the minute you compromise that for a check, I can't feel sorry for you. You got what you wanted, therefore you got what you deserved.

Last edited by Greatsthegreats; 09-23-2019 at 03:47 AM.
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post #19 of 23 (permalink) Old 09-23-2019, 06:16 AM
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I feel a little bad for Dave at that point looking back on it, He was in the wrong place at the wrong time, Daniel was red hot during the period of the Yes Movement that it's crap to blame Batista for WWE's insistence on pushing him to the main event of WM.

Not sure about Batista vs Brock but perhaps his ending the streak could have possibly waited for another year maybe.

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post #20 of 23 (permalink) Old 09-24-2019, 02:54 AM
 
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Re: In Defense of: The Dave Batista Wrestlemania 30 Decision

Batista vs. Brock Lesnar should have happened and Undertaker's streak would have been better ended by someone else at that point. In an alternate world, CM Punk vs. HHH would have happened or a triple threat/fatal 4 way (Orton/Bryan/Punk/HHH) match for the WWE/WHC title would have happened at WM 30. The timing was terrible for Batista, I was happy that he did come back at that time but I guess they weren't able to foresee what the fans wanted at that point even though the obvious choice that the people wanted back then was Daniel Bryan.
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