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post #11 of 28 (permalink) Old 06-24-2019, 12:11 PM
 
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Re: Brawl For All: Which Fights Were Works?

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Originally Posted by Kowalski's Killer View Post
Williams' reputation was such that no one booking the thing had any doubt in their mind that Williams would steamroll the competition.

I doubt any of it was a work. Holly claiming his fight was a work seems like a way to save face and claim he didn't lose a shoot fight.
Are you sure? I'm certain anyone that had a remote idea what UFC was knew Dan Severn would beat all those guys in embarrassingly easy fashion. (I know he pulled out of the tournament after the first fight, but still). The whole 'mystical badass fighter' thing was well outta the bag by 1997, as the UFC had been around for a while by that point.
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post #12 of 28 (permalink) Old 06-24-2019, 03:01 PM
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Re: Brawl For All: Which Fights Were Works?

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Are you sure? I'm certain anyone that had a remote idea what UFC was knew Dan Severn would beat all those guys in embarrassingly easy fashion. (I know he pulled out of the tournament after the first fight, but still). The whole 'mystical badass fighter' thing was well outta the bag by 1997, as the UFC had been around for a while by that point.
I'm not 100 percent sure of anything. Severn claimed that WWF allowed him to have the one fight and then removed him from the tournament. There were conflicting reports that WWF didn't allow Shamrock to compete and that Shamrock wanted nothing to do with the whole mess.

After that I tend to believe that WWF officials really did believe Williams was going to legitimately steamroll the competition. Williams had a reputation on par with Haku/Meng as the toughest, most dangerous guy in the industry.

UFC had been around for awhile at that point and was definitely an influence on BFA but UFC had nowhere near the respect, influence or popularity it would have in the coming years. It was a niche product that seemed like it was on its way out after being banned throughout the majority of the United States. They had no household name superstars and after seeing Tank Abbott go so far in the tournament there was a belief among many fans that an untrained bar fighter could possibly dominate the sport.

Finally, I completely believe in the possibility of Vince and his cohorts over-confidently making shortsighted, illogical plans without any thought put into a backup plan.

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post #13 of 28 (permalink) Old 06-24-2019, 03:16 PM
 
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Re: Brawl For All: Which Fights Were Works?

Dan Severn quit after 1 match because the rules were bollocks. Watch his match with Godfather he doesn't even look like he knows the rules. Shamrock just wanted nothing to do with such a farce. None were shoots - just look at the injuries. Blackman/Hawk/Droz/Dr D/Savio all ended up with serious injuries. Mero was decent boxer but as they had take-downs as well he got stuffed by Bradshaw (oh by the way Mero had a boxing gimmick going at the time..opps) Terrible idea and while i feel sorry for Dr D i'm glad it went to hell. If i want boxing/MMA i watch that. I dont want to watch wwf for crap versions of both
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post #14 of 28 (permalink) Old 06-24-2019, 08:25 PM
 
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Re: Brawl For All: Which Fights Were Works?

I think the closest thing to a work was them initially trying to help out Williams, as documented by Holly in his book, but I side with the many who call this one of the worst ideas in the history of the business. It doesn't quite get thrown in with the epically bad ideas of the Monday Night Wars era because it wasn't really a ratings disaster and on the surface, it didn't turn people away in numbers like other concepts but it's amazing just how much time and money was wasted on this idea that injured guys, railroaded careers, and did absolutely nothing to help out the long-term future for the WWF.

The idea that they would try to come up with a "shoot" idea during a time when their whole company direction was based on basically educating as many viewers as possible that their product was a "work" and then not even come up with an idea for the guy who wins it because their whole direction is tied up in one guy winning it? It speaks for just how much people will overlook when business is doing well. As Cornette and others have pointed out, it's the exact opposite of what wrestling is designed to be. Instead of convincing the crowd that something is real when it is staged, they tried to build a legitimate fighting contest in the middle of a show that nearly everyone thought was fake. And they didn't even bother to create a way to use it to make themselves some money.
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post #15 of 28 (permalink) Old 06-25-2019, 09:43 AM
 
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Re: Brawl For All: Which Fights Were Works?

I was under the impression that all the fights were shoots, which is why Bart Gunn won the damn thing, and boy oh boy did that kill his career or what?

And to me, this is totally a common sense thing. I've even heard Bart say this in a shoot interview. If you wanted Dr. Death to win, then make it a work and have him go over! DUH!

Instead we had all these guys put into a dangerous situation where they could all get hurt by fighting for real, and their ultimate goal of the thing didn't come to fruition. Whoopsie Poopsie!
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post #16 of 28 (permalink) Old 06-25-2019, 09:59 AM
 
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Re: Brawl For All: Which Fights Were Works?

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Originally Posted by Kowalski's Killer View Post
After that I tend to believe that WWF officials really did believe Williams was going to legitimately steamroll the competition. Williams had a reputation on par with Haku/Meng as the toughest, most dangerous guy in the industry.[/B]
Hearing JR talk about it, JR was bringing Steve Williams in. Bob Holly confirmed it saying the JR was shoving Williams down everyone's throats. They assumed Williams to be some sort of "badass" and this was the best way to introduce him. For some reason, they "knew" Williams would steamroll everyone involved.

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post #17 of 28 (permalink) Old 06-25-2019, 10:11 AM
 
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Re: Brawl For All: Which Fights Were Works?

From what I read, the whole thing was legit. I think I remember Cornette saying the plan was to have Dr. Death win, cause they legitimately thought he would have.
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post #18 of 28 (permalink) Old 06-25-2019, 08:13 PM
 
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Re: Brawl For All: Which Fights Were Works?

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I was under the impression that all the fights were shoots, which is why Bart Gunn won the damn thing, and boy oh boy did that kill his career or what?

And to me, this is totally a common sense thing. I've even heard Bart say this in a shoot interview. If you wanted Dr. Death to win, then make it a work and have him go over! DUH!

Instead we had all these guys put into a dangerous situation where they could all get hurt by fighting for real, and their ultimate goal of the thing didn't come to fruition. Whoopsie Poopsie!
I think this was essentially a defining moment where the people inside the wrestling business proved themselves bigger marks for their own bullshit than the people they were trying to fool (i.e. the paying fan). Lots of money and TV time wasted on this pointless dick-waving contest that nobody thought out properly. Not only did the guy they wanted to win not win but he got injured and basically ended up doing nothing for the company. Meanwhile, the guy that did win was used even less on TV than he was before the fact and was pretty much set up to lose against a one-time celebrity opponent. They might as well have just had him getting beaten up by The Rock or Kane, at least then when they flush his career down the toilet, they can use it as part of one of their own guy's highlight reels.
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post #19 of 28 (permalink) Old 06-26-2019, 04:23 AM
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Re: Brawl For All: Which Fights Were Works?

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To think that they could've made a star outta Bart Gunn with the whole Brawl For All win, and bring a lot of good from it. But nope, 'our guy Steve Williams didn't win, so let's just feed Bart to Butterbean' .
Butterbean should have gotten a contract and huge push after this:

Think about it, BB completely starched Bart in one of the most violent KO ever.
Bart beat some pretty tough customers on the roster we were led to believe, so why not just have BB come in for a Godlike push and get stopped by Austin.

Idk...just my two cents....and Butterbean is fucking awesome.



Last edited by kingnoth1n; 06-26-2019 at 04:24 AM.
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post #20 of 28 (permalink) Old 06-26-2019, 02:20 PM
 
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Re: Brawl For All: Which Fights Were Works?

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Dan Severn quit after 1 match because the rules were bollocks. Watch his match with Godfather he doesn't even look like he knows the rules. Shamrock just wanted nothing to do with such a farce. None were shoots - just look at the injuries. Blackman/Hawk/Droz/Dr D/Savio all ended up with serious injuries. Mero was decent boxer but as they had take-downs as well he got stuffed by Bradshaw (oh by the way Mero had a boxing gimmick going at the time..opps) Terrible idea and while i feel sorry for Dr D i'm glad it went to hell. If i want boxing/MMA i watch that. I dont want to watch wwf for crap versions of both
Bolded bit - I think you meant to say none were works.
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