Freedom Thread - Wrestling Forum: WWE, AEW, New Japan, Indy Wrestling, Women of Wrestling Forums
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post #1 of 21 (permalink) Old 01-16-2019, 07:11 PM Thread Starter
 
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Freedom Thread

It's something curious how explain freedom but will consider a general case:
Richmen and celebs consider fame, fortune and richness are symbols of freedom. And I was thinking about it.
By one hand, who doesn't dream to be millionaire or famous? You wouldn't have to work or it makes live better. However, with those things come envy, debts and suffering which doesn't look on the highlights.
And I'll ask you: don't you think this materialistic concept of freedom is something baloney? Me do.
Freedom doesn't measure in quantity. I think freedom is what you do while don't abuse of third persons. It's what you can do, not what you want to do.

Or what do you think about it?

"I ain't a golden token
to get sympathize everybody.
This is how I born, this is me.
If you don't love me, whatever."

"No soy monedita de oro", Cuco Sanchez.
Translation by El Grappleador.

Last edited by El Grappleador; 01-16-2019 at 07:21 PM.
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post #2 of 21 (permalink) Old 01-16-2019, 08:13 PM
 
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Re: Freedom Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by El Grappleador View Post
It's something curious how explain freedom but will consider a general case:
Richmen and celebs consider fame, fortune and richness are symbols of freedom. And I was thinking about it.
By one hand, who doesn't dream to be millionaire or famous? You wouldn't have to work or it makes live better. However, with those things come envy, debts and suffering which doesn't look on the highlights.
And I'll ask you: don't you think this materialistic concept of freedom is something baloney? Me do.
Freedom doesn't measure in quantity. I think freedom is what you do while don't abuse of third persons. It's what you can do, not what you want to do.

Or what do you think about it?
I have watched some TED talks from people who have had a stroke and their left brain stopped functioning for a few days. These people came from different backgrounds and professions. One was a professor at school and she explained how everything felt new. There was no judgement or attachment being in that state. She felt in total bliss. Actually a major factor to freedom may be staying in the present moment. As long as you are there the mental chatter in the brain can slip away and you feel clear headed. I think freedom has more to do with state of mind than material possessions or what you accumulate in life.
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Last edited by Dave Santos; 01-16-2019 at 08:14 PM.
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post #3 of 21 (permalink) Old 01-16-2019, 08:20 PM
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Re: Freedom Thread

Find out how free you feel on a stomach that's been empty for four days and it's thirty degrees and you've got no roof over your head

Find out how free you feel working 10 to 14 hours a day just for subsistence

Because that's how it was for 99% of the people who ever lived until the last 150 years or so

There most certainly is a relationship between freedom as we understand the concept and material abundance

You disassociate quality and quantity because in this day and age quantity is most abundant. You'd think different if that quantity went away. You'd think different real fast

There has been an AEWakening... have you felt it?

The mark wars have begun again

DAMN THAT TRACK IS HOT

THAT'S GOTTA BE KANE (IS BACK) (AGAIN)

RIP Robin

SPACE FORCE!

(space, space, space, force!)

SPACE FORCE!

Last edited by deepelemblues; 01-16-2019 at 08:26 PM.
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post #4 of 21 (permalink) Old 01-16-2019, 08:43 PM
 
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Re: Freedom Thread

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Originally Posted by deepelemblues View Post
Find out how free you feel on a stomach that's been empty for four days and it's thirty degrees and you've got no roof over your head

Find out how free you feel working 10 to 14 hours a day just for subsistence

Because that's how it was for 99% of the people who ever lived until the last 150 years or so

There most certainly is a relationship between freedom as we understand the concept and material abundance

You disassociate quality and quantity because in this day and age quantity is most abundant. You'd think different if that quantity went away
I didn't say that there wasn't a relationship. The material possessions I speak of are non essential. I agree that everybody needs to have their basic needs met. But once that is reached accumulating more money or possessions won't necessarily help. There have even been studies and the point at which happiness and wealth seem to be connected is around the 60k-85k range before the effect seems to wear off. If one believes freedom and happiness are correlated then accumulating more wealth won't necessarily help. But some people maybe think freedom and happiness do not correlate. Then I could see how this outcome could change someones perspective.
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post #5 of 21 (permalink) Old 01-16-2019, 08:51 PM
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Re: Freedom Thread

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Originally Posted by Dave Santos View Post
I didn't say that there wasn't a relationship. The material possessions I speak of are non essential. I agree that everybody needs to have their basic needs met. But once that is reached accumulating more money or possessions won't necessarily help. There have even been studies and the point at which happiness and wealth seem to be connected is around the 60k-85k range before the effect seems to wear off. If one believes freedom and happiness are correlated then accumulating more wealth won't necessarily help. But some people maybe think freedom and happiness do not correlate. Then I could see how this outcome could change someones perspective.
Our brains are wired so that we want two things above all else: purpose and novelty

Purpose is at least partially fulfilled by providing the necessities of life. 60-85k a year is enough to provide sufficient necessities for almost everyone and their family in a Western country

Novelty is pretty widely and cheaply available. 60-85k a year is also enough to provide enough novelty for most people in a Western country

There has been an AEWakening... have you felt it?

The mark wars have begun again

DAMN THAT TRACK IS HOT

THAT'S GOTTA BE KANE (IS BACK) (AGAIN)

RIP Robin

SPACE FORCE!

(space, space, space, force!)

SPACE FORCE!

Last edited by deepelemblues; 01-16-2019 at 08:53 PM.
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post #6 of 21 (permalink) Old 01-17-2019, 09:23 AM
 
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Re: Freedom Thread

Freedom is not tied to materialism. In fact, out current system and the skyrocketing depression across the board are happening because of materialism. Tie yourself to things and there is less freedom. Simple as that.

Thanks for the wonderful memories Ultimate Warrior... happy you got to be recognised as the legend you are before you went. Rest in peace
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post #7 of 21 (permalink) Old 01-17-2019, 09:43 AM
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Re: Freedom Thread

I think fame itself is terribly overrated. You can have lower stress and live that way depending on certain day to day choices.


Last edited by Commissioner Michaels; 01-17-2019 at 09:48 AM.
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post #8 of 21 (permalink) Old 01-17-2019, 12:20 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Freedom Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by deepelemblues View Post
Find out how free you feel on a stomach that's been empty for four days and it's thirty degrees and you've got no roof over your head

Find out how free you feel working 10 to 14 hours a day just for subsistence

Because that's how it was for 99% of the people who ever lived until the last 150 years or so

There most certainly is a relationship between freedom as we understand the concept and material abundance

You disassociate quality and quantity because in this day and age quantity is most abundant. You'd think different if that quantity went away. You'd think different real fast
Well. First of all, I've got covered my basic necessities. I've got a house where live, three part-time jobs which I'm work for pleasure of being useful, three foods and medical service. Therefore, I can't whine for that.

Second, I spend hours at the computer, and it forsaken my sight. So, I got moments to think and others to develop my creativity: reading, writing, playing piano, doping out my English.

Quote:
Originally Posted by deepelemblues View Post
Our brains are wired so that we want two things above all else: purpose and novelty
Purpose is at least partially fulfilled by providing the necessities of life. 60-85k a year is enough to provide sufficient necessities for almost everyone and their family in a Western country

Novelty is pretty widely and cheaply available. 60-85k a year is also enough to provide enough novelty for most people in a Western country
It's not how much money earns. It's How do you may use wit, though. And to get wit, must learn, learn and learn and practice that knowledge. As "Negro" Navarro says: "Never ends up learning". Ironically, Greats organizations as UNESCO create laws to slow down right to knowledge. It's a long story.

"I ain't a golden token
to get sympathize everybody.
This is how I born, this is me.
If you don't love me, whatever."

"No soy monedita de oro", Cuco Sanchez.
Translation by El Grappleador.
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post #9 of 21 (permalink) Old 01-19-2019, 08:45 PM
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Re: Freedom Thread

Freedom is an illusion placed before us to placate those who would otherwise rise up against their oppressors.

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post #10 of 21 (permalink) Old 01-19-2019, 09:29 PM
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Re: Freedom Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kabraxal View Post
Freedom is not tied to materialism. In fact, out current system and the skyrocketing depression across the board are happening because of materialism. Tie yourself to things and there is less freedom. Simple as that.
that's wrong though.

it's an essentially marxist critique and has been proven wrong again and again and again.

materialism is not causing depression. that is a fantasy. it has never been proven to even a limited degree.

it sounds good and like a lot of things that sound good it is dead wrong.

tying yourself to things does not lessen your freedom. that is another good-sounding dead wrong fantasy.

what if people were not tied to material things like cars? fine, they would be decreasing their freedom of movement and choice. private cars are the ultimate tools of increasing freedom. a person can get in their car and go wherever they want, whenever they want. they cannot be stopped. they have the power, the freedom. this is a freedom that simply did not exist for nearly all the humans that ever lived.

what about material things like homes? fine, not being "tied" to owning property = decreased freedom of ordering your own dwelling as you see fit. others have power over you that they would not have otherwise. that is the way it was for nearly all the humans that ever lived.

what about nice clothes, appliances, trinkets, whatever? fine, not being "tied" to owning them cuts off avenues of individual self expression and enjoyment. doesn't sound like maximum freedom to me.

the examples are endless. this materialism that allegedly lessens freedom is directly responsible for the increase in everyday freedom achieved over the last 150 years.

if people choose to not be tied to material possessions that is their choice and an exercise of their freedom as well. but choosing to be is a choice and an exercise of freedom as well. both ways offer different opportunities to think and act freely, and both ways contain different limitations on freedom.

There has been an AEWakening... have you felt it?

The mark wars have begun again

DAMN THAT TRACK IS HOT

THAT'S GOTTA BE KANE (IS BACK) (AGAIN)

RIP Robin

SPACE FORCE!

(space, space, space, force!)

SPACE FORCE!

Last edited by deepelemblues; 01-19-2019 at 09:31 PM.
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