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post #11 of 647 (permalink) Old 06-20-2018, 12:53 PM
 
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Re: Brexit continues to be a colossal fuck up.

I don't think there's any context in which Brexit wouldn't be a colossal fuck up. At this point I'm just trying to enjoy it, as there's at least some perverse enjoyment to be found in watching it all transpire, without any burden of personal responsibility.

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post #12 of 647 (permalink) Old 06-20-2018, 12:58 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Brexit continues to be a colossal fuck up.

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I don't think there's any context in which Brexit wouldn't be a colossal fuck up. At this point I'm just trying to enjoy it, as there's at least some perverse enjoyment to be found in watching it all transpire, without any burden of personal responsibility.
I can't even get into that mentality tbh, a lot of my friends and family are in the lower working class and they're going to be hit hard. I've actually got a bunch of relatives moving back to Ireland over it and if my Italian grandparents weren't so old and frail we'd likely be taking them back to Sicily. It's the toughest part of it for me, seeing how it's affecting them. Both of them are over 90 and my Grandad had a stroke a couple years ago that sapped the life out of him. Now they're both confused and feel like they've become Pariahs and aren't welcome in a country they paid taxes in for decades. It's pretty upsetting.

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post #13 of 647 (permalink) Old 06-20-2018, 01:36 PM
 
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Re: Brexit continues to be a colossal fuck up.

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I can't even get into that mentality tbh, a lot of my friends and family are in the lower working class and they're going to be hit hard. I've actually got a bunch of relatives moving back to Ireland over it and if my Italian grandparents weren't so old and frail we'd likely be taking them back to Sicily. It's the toughest part of it for me, seeing how it's affecting them. Both of them are over 90 and my Grandad had a stroke a couple years ago that sapped the life out of him. Now they're both confused and feel like they've become Pariahs and aren't welcome in a country they paid taxes in for decades. It's pretty upsetting.
I'd cetainly stress the "trying" aspect of trying to enjoy it, as it's not always that easy!

While my circumstances mean there's far less of a direct impact for my friends/family compared to yourself (Parents have their mortgage paid off & collecting a decent pension, grandparents dead, etc), I worry about my daughter more than anything I guess, but it's going to effect most of her generation fairly equally anywa,y so more or less a level playing field.

I'm always going to find it hard to deal with the fact that while a lot of the working class (plenty of whom were hoodwinked into voting Brexit) are going to be hit worst, while the Borrises & Farages are going to be pretty much unscathed and probably even gain from it. I can only hold out hope that the more fucked things get, the better the odds of posive change, and hope that it's not an unstoppable societal downward spiral.
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post #14 of 647 (permalink) Old 06-20-2018, 01:43 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Brexit continues to be a colossal fuck up.

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I'd cetainly stress the "trying" aspect of trying to enjoy it, as it's not always that easy!

While my circumstances mean there's far less of a direct impact for my friends/family compared to yourself (Parents have their mortgage paid off & collecting a decent pension, grandparents dead, etc), I worry about my daughter more than anything I guess, but it's going to effect most of her generation fairly equally anywa,y so more or less a level playing field.

I'm always going to find it hard to deal with the fact that while a lot of the working class (plenty of whom were hoodwinked into voting Brexit) are going to be hit worst, while the Borrises & Farages are going to be pretty much unscathed and probably even gain from it. I can only hold out hope that the more fucked things get, the better the odds of posive change, and hope that it's not an unstoppable societal downward spiral.
Yeah thankfully my immediate family are good, I helped my folks pay off their mortgage and I have one brother with serious mental health problems who lives with them, my other brother is a submariner in the navy. It's the extended family it's gonna mess up though and I have a LOT of extended family as both my paternal grandmother and great-grandmother had more than 10 children. We're probably moving though, my office has given me the opportunity to relocate to the continent so we'll likely do that before everything is finalised but I worry about leaving my folks as they're getting older. Convincing your parents to leave everything behind and move to another country is not the easiest thing to do in all honesty.

The only people really gaining from Brexit are all of the tax-dodgers who've been pushing for this ever since the EU decided to crack down on them - it's easier to take the economy hit than pay taxes on their substantial incomes. There's a reason the vast majority of MP's voted against Brexit, not for. It's the tax-dodgers and the Rupert Murdoch types who look to gain, the majority of the "elites" didn't even want this because of how bad it'd be for the economy.

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post #15 of 647 (permalink) Old 06-20-2018, 01:50 PM
 
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Re: Brexit continues to be a colossal fuck up.

Theresa May is utterly useless as a Prime Minister, once was declared the new iron lady by the tabloids has all but lost it since the results of the June election last year when we all saw how weak she is domestically and internationally. She doesn't seem to have any good allies/friends among the world leader in Europe or the US (remember when some of the media were saying the relationship between Trump and May would be the new Reagan and Thatcher?) Only the CANZUK countries seem to have some time for her from what I've seen.

Here's an old story from back in February about a leadership challenge:
http://uk.businessinsider.com/boris-...esa-may-2018-2

Just imagine what a Brexit dream team led government with a brexit dominated cabinet would look like:
  • Boris Johnson - Prime Minister (Give him his dream job and sort out what he helped create, brexit, also called for freedom of movement between the UK and Australia, if he supports CANZUK and gets it created then we could always run away to Australia or Canada lol)
  • Michael Gove - Deputy Prime Minister, First Secretary of State, Exiting the EU Secretary (Would be Boris' right hand man, lets see if he's any better than Davis at the game)
  • Jacob Rees-Mogg - Chancellor of the Exchequer (would probably bring back the gold standard)
  • David Davis - Foreign Secretary (lets give him another foreign affairs brief and see how he does, would be interesting to see if he keeps his libertarian values (human rights) when visiting the US and China)
  • Iain Duncan Smith - Home Secretary (put him in charge of immigration reform and making plans for EU nationals here and Brits abroad in Europe, would likely go all Trump)
  • Andrew Rosindell - Leader of the House of Commons (Patriotic Englishman and Briton, a federalist who has advocated for an English Parliament which is cool I guess and has made various private bills that required flags and portraits of the HM The Queen at all airports as well as dedicated channels at airports for commonwealth citizens)
  • Penny Mordaunt - Defence Secretary (Has some history in defence, a brexiteer and female, might get some good PR out of it)
  • Priti Patel - Justice Secretary (No law experience but supports capital punishment, so what's not to love? )
  • Graham Brady - Education Secretary (Head of 1922 committee and is very Tory, perfect for reforming the education system, could also introduce an American style pledge of allegiance to Queen and Country that all pupils will recite at the start of school)
  • Nadhim Zahawi - International Trade Secretary (Think he had a career in business, could make trade deals in favour of big business, maybe)
  • Andrea Leadsom - Business Secretary (Had career in the City, she should be able to make businesses confident that they will thrive in Brexit Britain)
  • Esther McVey - Work & Pensions Secretary (Female IDS on steroids, even more cuts to DLA to appeal to C2 working class brexiteers and angry pensioners who advocate placing welfare users in concentrations camps and exterminating them)
  • Adam Afriyie - Environment Secretary (No clue what his stance is but the job is his, Goldsmith could get it but he kinda cares about it so that's a big no no)
  • Chris Grayling - Housing & Communities Secretary (Boring job for boring politician)
  • Zac Goldsmith - Transport Secretary (Ran unsuccessfully for Mayor of London which has huge role over Transport for London, could see his London proposals brought to the wider UK, whatever they are)
  • Dominic Raab - International Development Secretary (Brexiteer who appears alot on political programming but never got a cabinet job, lets give him one and he can do whatever he wants since its DFID)
  • John Whittingdale - Media, Culture, Sport Secretary (Had role previously, strongly opposed to license fee but kept it in last BBC charter likely due to centrist Cameron, could go all the way and privatise BBC and Channel 4)
  • Ross Thompson - Scotland Secretary (One of few Scottish politicians to back brexit, debates between him and Bute House would be interesting)
  • David Jones - Wales Secretary (one of Wales' top hardline Brexiteers and well on the right of the party)
  • Theresa Villiers - Northern Ireland Secretary (Was NI Secretary before and supported Brexit, she should be able to find a solution to the Irish border, right?)
  • Kwasi Kwarteng - Chief Secretary to the Treasury (dubbed by some media outlets as the 'Black Boris')
  • David Davies - Immigration Minister (on the far right of the party, he and IDS would get on well and would have big influence over immigration reform)
  • Philip Davies - Women and Equalities Minister (because lol)

Seems horrifying but part of me would love to see the fuckary that happens and to see them get to work and make a brexit a success as they said it would be. Just imagine if they failed and had to tell us why they couldn't achieve the Great British dream
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Last edited by BRITLAND; 06-22-2018 at 08:59 AM.
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post #16 of 647 (permalink) Old 06-20-2018, 01:53 PM
 
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Re: Brexit continues to be a colossal fuck up.

If that had been the current government I'd have emigrated to France or Australia already.

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post #17 of 647 (permalink) Old 06-20-2018, 01:55 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Brexit continues to be a colossal fuck up.

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Originally Posted by BRITLAND View Post
Theresa May is utterly useless as a Prime Minister, once was declared the new iron lady by the tabloids has all but lost it since the results of the June election last year when we all saw how weak she is domestically and internationally. She doesn't seem to have any good allies/friends among the world leader in Europe or the US (remember when some of the media were saying the relationship between Trump and May would be the new Reagan and Thatcher?) Only the CANZUK countries seem to have some time for her from what I've seen.

Here's an old story from back in February about a leadership challenge:
http://uk.businessinsider.com/boris-...esa-may-2018-2

Just imagine what a Brexit dream team led government with a brexit dominated cabinet would look like:
  • Boris Johnson - Prime Minister (Give him his dream job and sort out what he helped create, brexit, also called for freedom of movement between the UK and Australia, if he supports CANZUK and gets it created then we could always run away to Australia or Canada lol)
  • Michael Gove - Deputy Prime Minister, First Secretary of State, Exiting the EU Secretary (Would be Boris' right hand man, lets see if he's any better than Davis at the game)
  • Jacob Rees-Mogg - Chancellor of the Exchequer (would probably bring back the gold standard)
  • David Davis - Foreign Secretary (lets give him another foreign affairs brief and see how he does, would be interesting to see if he keeps his libertarian values (human rights) when visiting the US and China)
  • Iain Duncan Smith - Home Secretary (put him in charge of immigration reform and making plans for EU nationals here and Brits abroad in Europe, would likely go all Trump)
  • Andrew Rosindell - Leader of the House of Commons (Patriotic Englishman and Briton, a federalist who has advocated for an English Parliament which is cool I guess and has made various private bills that required flags and portraits of the HM The Queen at all airports as well as dedicated channels at airports for commonwealth citizens)
  • Penny Mordaunt - Defence Secretary (Has some history in defence, a brexiteer and female, might get some good PR out of it)
  • Priti Patel - Justice Secretary (No law experience but supports capital punishment, so what's not to love? )
  • Graham Brady - Education Secretary Head of 1922 committee and is very Tory, perfect for reforming the education system, could also introduce an American style pledge of allegiance to Queen and Country that all pupils will recite at the start of school)
  • Nadhim Zahawi - International Trade Secretary (Think he had a career in business, could make trade deals in favour of big business, maybe)
  • Andrea Leadsom - Business Secretary (Had career in the City, she should be able to make businesses confident that they will thrive in Brexit Britain)
  • Esther McVey - Work & Pensions Secretary (Female IDS on steroids, even more cuts to DLA to appeal to C2 brexiteers and angry pensioners who hate their hard earned tax money going to welfare)
  • Adam Afriyie - Environment Secretary (No clue what his stance is but the job is his, Goldsmith could get it but he kinda cares about it so that's a big no no)
  • Chris Grayling - Housing & Communities Secretary (Boring job for boring politician)
  • Zac Goldsmith - Transport Secretary (Ran unsuccessfully for Mayor of London which has huge role over Transport for London, could see his London proposals brought to the wider UK, whatever they are)
  • Dominic Raab - International Development Secretary (Brexiteer who appears alot on political programming but never got a cabinet job, lets give him one and he can do whatever he wants since its DFID)
  • John Whittingdale - Media, Culture, Sport Secretary (Had role previously, strongly opposed to license fee but kept it in last BBC charter likely due to centrist Cameron, could go all the way and privatise BBC and Channel 4)
  • Ross Thompson - Scotland Secretary (One of few Scottish politicians to back brexit, debates between him and Bute House would be interesting)
  • David Jones - Wales Secretary (one of Wales' top hardline Brexiteers and well on the right of the party)
  • Theresa Villiers - Northern Ireland Secretary (Was NI Secretary before and supported Brexit, she should be able to find a solution to the Irish border, right?)
  • Kwasi Kwarteng - Chief Secretary to the Treasury (dubbed by some media outlets as the 'Black Boris')
  • David Davies - Immigration Minister (on the far right of the party, he and IDS would get on well and would have big influence over immigration reform)
  • Philip Davies - Women and Equalities Minister (because lol)

Seems horrifying but part of me would love to see the fuckary that happens and to see them get to work and make a brexit a success as they said it would be. Just imagine if they failed and had to tell us why they couldn't achieve the Great British dream
The bold is a forgone conclusion, there is no way to succeed at Brexit. It's literally impossible to make us a better country post Brexit than we've been in the EU. Interesting to note that the one mainstream politician who'd flat out stop Brexit on his own back is Vince Cable - a Cambridge graduate and former fellow with a phd in economics. Corbyn's history is in Unions and journalism and May's got a 2nd in business. I don't think it's hard to see why I'd put Cable over both of them.

You put so much oil in this the US wants to invade the fucking plate! - Gordon Ramsay.
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post #18 of 647 (permalink) Old 06-20-2018, 02:27 PM
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Re: Brexit continues to be a colossal fuck up.

But really, so what?

Britain got along quite well in the past having to request extradition.

All this petulant behavior from the EU is to me further argument for Brexit, look at the contempt and ill-will the masters of the Continent hold towards the United Kingdom. Why should any of the UK's sovereign powers be submitted to such people? Why would any sane, self-respecting person want political union with such people? Because "I like getting to travel to Spain without hassle and I'll make more money!"

Sounds selfish and short-sighted and betrays a lack of self-confidence to me. Of course if governments in Europe didn't have their hands and most of their arms faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar up the ass of their economies, political structures like the EU would not have such power. No need for the EU for there to be free trade and easy travel across borders. Once again we see the drawbacks of the interventionist State. You Continentals have boxed yourself in politically and economically. At the behest of the "experts."

This crypto-technocratic appeal to "experts" is quite amusing though considering the extremely long list of "expert" failures in government, including the current debilitating failure and near-future total failure of the European Union itself thanks to politicians listening to "experts" and not the people. Carry on thinking those "experts" are adept at prescribing policy

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post #19 of 647 (permalink) Old 06-20-2018, 02:32 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Brexit continues to be a colossal fuck up.

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But really, so what?

Britain got along quite well in the past having to request extradition.

All this petulant behavior from the EU is to me further argument for Brexit, look at the contempt and ill-will the masters of the Continent hold towards the United Kingdom. Why should any of the UK's sovereign powers be submitted to such people? Why would any sane, self-respecting person want political union with such people? Because "I like getting to travel to Spain without hassle and I'll make more money!"

Sounds selfish and short-sighted to me.

This crypto-technocratic appeal to "experts" is quite amusing though considering the extremely long list of "expert" failures in government, including the near-future failure of the European Union itself thanks to politicians listening to "experts" and not the people. Carry on thinking those "experts" are adept at prescribing policy
If you knew anything at all about the UK economy you'd realise there is no good argument for Brexit. It's only ever a losing situation. How are we going to stand on our own two feet when we don't produce anything? Our economy is built around being the financial services provider for the EU, are you saying America and Canada are going to let us do their financial services for them instead? We don't fit any niche outside of the EU, we don't produce anything at a scale large enough to replace that knock to our economy. See this is exactly my point, you're somebody who doesn't know what they're talking about and I'm supposed to listen to you over people with phd's in economics who actually know the variables at play here? Please.
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You put so much oil in this the US wants to invade the fucking plate! - Gordon Ramsay.
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post #20 of 647 (permalink) Old 06-20-2018, 02:34 PM
 
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Re: Brexit continues to be a colossal fuck up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by deepelemblues View Post
But really, so what?

Britain got along quite well in the past having to request extradition.

All this petulant behavior from the EU is to me further argument for Brexit, look at the contempt and ill-will the masters of the Continent hold towards the United Kingdom. Why should any of the UK's sovereign powers be submitted to such people? Why would any sane, self-respecting person want political union with such people? Because "I like getting to travel to Spain without hassle and I'll make more money!"

Sounds selfish and short-sighted to me.

This crypto-technocratic appeal to "experts" is quite amusing though considering the extremely long list of "expert" failures in government, including the near-future failure of the European Union itself thanks to politicians listening to "experts" and not the people. Carry on thinking those "experts" are adept at prescribing policy
“Why do I have to listen to what doctors say? Doctors have been wrong so many times in the past, surely I’m more qualified to decide what’s good and not good for my own body. Fuck the doctors”.

Is essentially supported by the same argument you’re providing but this time instead of your body, its an entire continent that’s getting affected.

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