Jon Moxley on AEW's Story Telling: "We're Planting the Seeds for stuff now that's Going to Pay off Years from Now" - Page 2 - Wrestling Forum: WWE, AEW, New Japan, Indy Wrestling, Women of Wrestling Forums

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post #11 of 19 (permalink) Old 11-09-2019, 08:13 AM
 
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The short attention span of some fans is really quite annoying.
It’s not that. Sometimes the crowd rejects your long-term arc.

E.g. Roman Reigns.

WWE persisted with their long-term arc for Reigns and Lesnar, while almost completely ignoring anyone who caught fire unless it was part of their original plan.

Did fans reject Roman due to a short attention span? No.

Russo is on record with what he would’ve done with Roman Reigns. When he won the Royal Rumble and The Rock came out to boos... he was calling an audible in the headset to have Roman flipping off the crowd and turning heel right then and there, because that’s what someone in that situation would really do.

He probably ends up getting cheered at WM31 because of it and save us from 3 years of stubborn, long-term booking.

Short-term flexibility is important - you can’t assume a compliant audience will always react the way you want them to react.

As for AEW, so far I’ve seen them push Darby Allin due to crowd reactions, so I do think they’re utilising short-term booking principles when appropriate.

AEW say they “listen to the fans”... that means short-term booking, and they’ve delivered on it, thankfully.

Wrestling is a highly dynamic, constantly changing thing.

The wrestling ring is a market place for the audience to choose to buy or not buy situations presented to them.

Long-term booking sounds great in theory, but when overdone it stifles creativity and ignores the market’s response to your product.
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Last edited by IronMan8; 11-09-2019 at 08:21 AM.
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post #12 of 19 (permalink) Old 11-09-2019, 09:07 AM
 
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Re: Jon Moxley on AEW's Story Telling: "We're Planting the Seeds for stuff now that's Going to Pay off Years from Now"

The title sounds hyperbolic. But nothing wrong with planning ahead as long as multiple paths are being considered.
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post #13 of 19 (permalink) Old 11-09-2019, 09:10 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IronMan8 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Sanchez View Post
The short attention span of some fans is really quite annoying.
It’s not that. Sometimes the crowd rejects your long-term arc.

E.g. Roman Reigns.

WWE persisted with their long-term arc for Reigns and Lesnar, while almost completely ignoring anyone who caught fire unless it was part of their original plan.

Did fans reject Roman due to a short attention span? No.

Russo is on record with what he would’ve done with Roman Reigns. When he won the Royal Rumble and The Rock came out to boos... he was calling an audible in the headset to have Roman flipping off the crowd and turning heel right then and there, because that’s what someone in that situation would really do.

He probably ends up getting cheered at WM31 because of it and save us from 3 years of stubborn, long-term booking.

Short-term flexibility is important - you can’t assume a compliant audience will always react the way you want them to react.

As for AEW, so far I’ve seen them push Darby Allin due to crowd reactions, so I do think they’re utilising short-term booking principles when appropriate.

AEW say they “listen to the fans”... that means short-term booking, and they’ve delivered on it, thankfully.

Wrestling is a highly dynamic, constantly changing thing.

The wrestling ring is a market place for the audience to choose to buy or not buy situations presented to them.

Long-term booking sounds great in theory, but when overdone it stifles creativity and ignores the market’s response to your product.
so to tou they are using both short term and long term booking? Long term for the bigger storyline and short term to give the fans instant gratification on certain things while still playing the long term? That's interesting.
Its something that would have work let's say with reigns ( last legit long term wwe project) if when he started to face rejection they did the heel turn for a short time or they threw him on a down spiral to do a legit redemption story.
Interesting nonetheless
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post #14 of 19 (permalink) Old 11-09-2019, 09:15 AM
 
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Re: Jon Moxley on AEW's Story Telling: "We're Planting the Seeds for stuff now that's Going to Pay off Years from Now"

Well hopefully there's a mixture. Don't get me wrong, it's brilliant what they're doing, and I myself am getting "impatient" waiting for the incredibly juicy stuff later down the line. But I'm really enjoying this ride.

I do hope in the future though they do have some quick payoffs - whether it by title wins, story endings, ect... because that's just how the real world works. Sometimes you simply don't need a year to tell a story. You can give us a story that lasts a month or two that has a nice pay off that is exactly what the fans want.

But AEW are figuring it out and I'm excited. The last time I was a part of a long term story was Daniel Bryan vs The Authority and it's still one of my absolute favorite moments in Wrestling history. Bryan is an absolute star because of that storyline, long term booking / storytelling does wonders.
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post #15 of 19 (permalink) Old 11-09-2019, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by IronMan8 View Post
Long-term and short-term booking both have their pros and cons, but IMO when done well, short-term booking is the only booking that can genuinely listen to the fans.

Long-term booking always requires you to work the fans into buying what you want them to buy.

It’s the opposite principle to having a free market of situations that the audience accepts or rejects to determine next week’s direction of the show.

If fans figure it out or react against your wishes, then you’re stuck in a long-term arc that nobody wants to see.

Short-term pros:
- crowd reactions literally influence the next week’s show. If you chant for Rusev, then Rusev gets more airtime next week.
- can immediately correct course in response to unexpected factors that affect how the storyline has played out
- Injuries or unexpected crowd reactions are easier to write around with new storylines that won’t ruin the other moving pieces.
- Principle of free market (audience) guides the product

Russo’s Undertaker in a Kane mask surprise was the culmination of multiple storylines coming together after 7 months - it wasn’t planned in advanced, but it doesn’t mean logical conclusions can’t be reached when the crowd energy and timing is right.

AEW’s crowd is highly willing to go along with the show out of respect, but there are undoubtedly challenges with any form of long-term booking in such a dynamic, agile environment.

Realistically, they’ll use a combination of both when appropriate.
Agreed with all of this. The added factor with AEW though is that they’re brand new with only a handful of recognizable names and a whole lot of potential that most people have never heard of. So they definitely need short-term plans to keep fans interested from week to week, but they also need to fit that into a long-term framework to turn some of those unknowns into recognizable characters. I like hearing stuff like this from guys like Mox — I tend to believe that he’s going to tell it like it is and not kiss the company’s ass. Statements like this give me a lot of reason to be optimistic for the future of this company.
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post #16 of 19 (permalink) Old 11-09-2019, 09:27 AM
 
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Re: Jon Moxley on AEW's Story Telling: "We're Planting the Seeds for stuff now that's Going to Pay off Years from Now"

As long as the seeds continue it wont be a problem, would be weird seeing a storyline "well you pissed me off 3 years ago so I want a match!" like really, it took 3 years to grow balls and do something?
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post #17 of 19 (permalink) Old 11-09-2019, 10:31 AM
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Re: Jon Moxley on AEW's Story Telling: "We're Planting the Seeds for stuff now that's Going to Pay off Years from Now"

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Originally Posted by reyfan View Post
As long as the seeds continue it wont be a problem, would be weird seeing a storyline "well you pissed me off 3 years ago so I want a match!" like really, it took 3 years to grow balls and do something?
I’m pretty sure the ‘seeds’ he’s talking about are not specific story lines, but rather strategic directions that will enable them to build up new stars going forward. Like what they’re doing with Guevara and Jericho right now. They probably have a bunch of those in the works, with any number of ways for the unknown guy to get the rub from a well-known star. It’s gonna be a slow build, and they can’t rush too many unknowns through this ‘process’ at once. And they don’t have an army of top stars at their disposal to bring up the newer guys, unfortunately.

Send lawyers, guns and money.

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post #18 of 19 (permalink) Old 11-09-2019, 11:36 AM
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Re: Jon Moxley on AEW's Story Telling: "We're Planting the Seeds for stuff now that's Going to Pay off Years from Now"

AEW books backwards. The know where they want to get and are booking towards it.

Cody said it btw.
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post #19 of 19 (permalink) Old 11-09-2019, 12:45 PM
 
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Re: Jon Moxley on AEW's Story Telling: "We're Planting the Seeds for stuff now that's Going to Pay off Years from Now"

Sounds good on paper, but there are two issues that could arise.

1. People will gradually give up on the product if they aren't entertained prior to any payoff(s).
2. If some of those long story arcs are rejected by the fans and aren't drawing, they can't be stubborn and stick with them. They've got to be flexible.
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