Jim Cornette - Page 19 - Wrestling Forum: WWE, AEW, New Japan, Indy Wrestling, Women of Wrestling Forums

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post #181 of 232 (permalink) Old 11-09-2019, 04:55 AM
 
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People are going to listen to a wrestling genius far more than they are to someone without the experience or knowledge that try to de-platform him.



The thing about Cornette is he explains why he holds certain positions. He’ll support it with historical information, logic and a bunch of experience. He just doesn’t say “Joey Ryan is trash because I hate him.” He says “Joey Ryan is trash because the dick spot is bullshit without any basis in reality and chases away people who want wrestling to make sense.” You can dismiss this as an opinion, but it makes perfect sense and is reflected by the health of the wrestling industry.

All that is really there as a retort is “Nuh-uh! I like it!”
It makes no sense at all. THAT is MY viewpoint. It not because that's all there is, It's because that's all I need at the end of the day and all the justification I owe anyone.

People try to justify the confederate flag with historical msnipulation, too.
Yeah, and they can be torn apart with logic and reason. You’re not making much sense here, Beatles.
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post #182 of 232 (permalink) Old 11-09-2019, 05:54 AM
 
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Re: Jim Cornette

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Yeah, and they can be torn apart with logic and reason. You’re not making much sense here, Beatles.
Why is it anyone's duty to tare anyone apart?



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post #183 of 232 (permalink) Old 11-09-2019, 11:41 PM
 
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Yeah, and they can be torn apart with logic and reason. You’re not making much sense here, Beatles.
Why is it anyone's duty to tare anyone apart?
Because criticism, analysis and evaluation are crucial to the evolution of art and culture? Why do people go to school? Why do athletes get coached? Why do politicians have debates?

Cornette’s an expert that has been taught by the best and taught the best. He knows how and why things work. When he sees it being done wrong, he talks about the damage that can do to the health of the industry. Almost every time he is correct. People just don’t like it because it doesn’t feel “nice” to be told you’re doing something wrong, because some people would rather feel good and fuck everything up for everyone than feel like there is self-improvement to be done and actually learning, because that’s harder than starting from an “anything I do is awesome” perspective.
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post #184 of 232 (permalink) Old 11-10-2019, 01:17 AM
 
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Re: Jim Cornette

I personally don't care what that man has to say about anything so he's whatever to me.
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post #185 of 232 (permalink) Old 11-10-2019, 07:23 AM
 
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Re: Jim Cornette

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Originally Posted by The Wood View Post
Because criticism, analysis and evaluation are crucial to the evolution of art and culture? Why do people go to school? Why do athletes get coached? Why do politicians have debates?

Cornette’s an expert that has been taught by the best and taught the best. He knows how and why things work. When he sees it being done wrong, he talks about the damage that can do to the health of the industry. Almost every time he is correct. People just don’t like it because it doesn’t feel “nice” to be told you’re doing something wrong, because some people would rather feel good and fuck everything up for everyone than feel like there is self-improvement to be done and actually learning, because that’s harder than starting from an “anything I do is awesome” perspective.
Wood, i am truly and deeply appalled by every word you spoke, not that you will care. I am beyond hurt and disappointed that that is the level we have gone to. I don't wish to talk anymore because i genuinely thought you were a better person than this.



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RIP.


Listen to me cut promos and other stuff!:

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post #186 of 232 (permalink) Old 11-10-2019, 07:25 AM
Lets go to the old mill anyway, get some cider!
 
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Originally Posted by The Wood View Post
Because criticism, analysis and evaluation are crucial to the evolution of art and culture? Why do people go to school? Why do athletes get coached? Why do politicians have debates?

Cornette’s an expert that has been taught by the best and taught the best. He knows how and why things work. When he sees it being done wrong, he talks about the damage that can do to the health of the industry. Almost every time he is correct. People just don’t like it because it doesn’t feel “nice” to be told you’re doing something wrong, because some people would rather feel good and fuck everything up for everyone than feel like there is self-improvement to be done and actually learning, because that’s harder than starting from an “anything I do is awesome” perspective.
I laughed so hard at this. Thanks for the chuckle.
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post #187 of 232 (permalink) Old 11-10-2019, 07:48 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Beatles123 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Wood View Post
Because criticism, analysis and evaluation are crucial to the evolution of art and culture? Why do people go to school? Why do athletes get coached? Why do politicians have debates?

Cornette’s an expert that has been taught by the best and taught the best. He knows how and why things work. When he sees it being done wrong, he talks about the damage that can do to the health of the industry. Almost every time he is correct. People just don’t like it because it doesn’t feel “nice” to be told you’re doing something wrong, because some people would rather feel good and fuck everything up for everyone than feel like there is self-improvement to be done and actually learning, because that’s harder than starting from an “anything I do is awesome” perspective.
Wood, i am truly and deeply appalled by every word you spoke, not that you will care. I am beyond hurt and disappointed that that is the level we have gone to. I don't wish to talk anymore because i genuinely thought you were a better person than this.
Beatles, stop acting like you’re somehow victimized by this. You asked a question and you got a valid answer.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Wood View Post
Because criticism, analysis and evaluation are crucial to the evolution of art and culture? Why do people go to school? Why do athletes get coached? Why do politicians have debates?

Cornette’s an expert that has been taught by the best and taught the best. He knows how and why things work. When he sees it being done wrong, he talks about the damage that can do to the health of the industry. Almost every time he is correct. People just don’t like it because it doesn’t feel “nice” to be told you’re doing something wrong, because some people would rather feel good and fuck everything up for everyone than feel like there is self-improvement to be done and actually learning, because that’s harder than starting from an “anything I do is awesome” perspective.
I laughed so hard at this. Thanks for the chuckle.
You’re welcome. It’s nice to see the intelligence and sophistication of your reply.
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post #188 of 232 (permalink) Old 11-10-2019, 08:00 AM
 
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Re: Jim Cornette

Wood speaking like subjective taste can be proven objectively. So let's look at the objectives here.

One side has a television show that seems to be doing quite well, and making money and pleasing fans, while the other side has been fired from every promotion they've ever worked for, who's own promotion failed despite said party being so very smart, who's made a career out of being enormously mentally unhealthy.

Let me put it this way. Cornette thinks every single possible little thing Kenny Omega does is pure hot objective garbage, and he's said(rather cluelessly) that he thinks Seth Rollins is the bee's knees and an enormously talented top guy who he just gushes over. (the same top guy who stole one of Kenny's moves to use as his new finisher)

The point I'm making is that your "almost every time he's correct" thing is key. Human beings are fallible. Cornette's opinion is NOT gospel, and maybe if people are going nuts for it and it seems to be working then Corny can just shut the fuck up for a second and consider for a brief second that he's maybe sometimes out of touch. Something Corny will never be willing to do.
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post #189 of 232 (permalink) Old 11-10-2019, 08:23 AM
 
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Wood speaking like subjective taste can be proven objectively. So let's look at the objectives here.

One side has a television show that seems to be doing quite well, and making money and pleasing fans, while the other side has been fired from every promotion they've ever worked for, who's own promotion failed despite said party being so very smart, who's made a career out of being enormously mentally unhealthy.

Let me put it this way. Cornette thinks every single possible little thing Kenny Omega does is pure hot objective garbage, and he's said(rather cluelessly) that he thinks Seth Rollins is the bee's knees and an enormously talented top guy who he just gushes over. (the same top guy who stole one of Kenny's moves to use as his new finisher)

The point I'm making is that your "almost every time he's correct" thing is key. Human beings are fallible. Cornette's opinion is NOT gospel, and maybe if people are going nuts for it and it seems to be working then Corny can just shut the fuck up for a second and consider for a brief second that he's maybe sometimes out of touch. Something Corny will never be willing to do.
Cornette got fired from TNA and WWE when he wanted out, but still remained part-owner of OVW. Where else did he get fired from?

AEW has lost almost half its viewership and has a fraction of the audience of at least two other wrestling shows. Is it making money? Citation needed.

Are you really trying to use SMW in the early/mid-nineties as a comparison to AEW in 2019? That’s asinine. One existed in a time where people paid to be on TV and the other exists when a declining WWE product gets paid $100 million per hour of TV it produces per year. Cornette’s made a career out of being one of the best promos in wrestling, being a legitimate draw and making logical enough sense that when he talks people listen.

Did you take me saying “he’s almost always correct” and take it to mean “his word is gospel.” I don’t agree with him on Seth Rollins or, say, Dolph Ziggler. I do agree with his wrestling philosophy though because it makes sense and is backed with data. Just this week he got done tearing Austin Aries apart as a person, but admitted he is a damn good professional wrestler. He’s right about almost everything he’s said about Omega. He is ridiculous and subpar as an actual worker drawing emotion into what he’s doing.

What exactly does “going nuts” mean? Declining TV ratings from an underwhelming debut? Decreasing PPV buys? The only people going nuts are the people on his nuts. No new fans have been created. When your PPV retention rate currently stands at 38%, maybe you shouldn’t accuse others of being out of touch?

No, opinions are not objective. But some things just aren’t opinion. Like that data. Or the fact that when wrestling makes it harder for audiences to suspend their disbelief, audiences leave. This isn’t an opinion. Pissing into your own mouth isn’t a good idea is not an opinion. And some opinions are better formed and based on information and knowledge than others.

Cornette’s philosophy makes sense. AEW’s, by and large, is “let’s do whatever we want!” as fans leave and apologists say it’s doing great and any criticism is just an opinion, man.

We’ll see who is out of touch come this time next year (provided the writing isn’t on the wall even earlier).
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post #190 of 232 (permalink) Old 11-10-2019, 08:27 AM
 
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Re: Jim Cornette

So what happens if this time next year AEW is around and doing just fine? Not gonna happen? A fluke?

"No... No it's the children who are wrong!"

(rolls eyes)
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