Originally Posted by Tyrion Lannister
How about that ridiculous 13 month jobbing streak on PPV? The guy went a year without winning a PPV match. ANY PPV match. One YEAR. Or most of his tenure on ECW?
He won the ECW title and held it for nearly half a year. If you're talking about his first bit with ECW. . .aka the immediate start of his pro wrestling career, wtf did you expect? Him to be handed titles left and right in his first few months?
How was ECW NOT part of WWE?
This isn't NXT, ECW stars interacted with Raw and SmackDown talent, they were an actual brand, ECW stars competed in the Royal Rumble, got PPV spots, etc.
FCW is part of the WWE too. So is NXT. ECW characters weren't vying for the WWE title, WHC title, or even the IC title. They never won those belts. Just the ECW belts. So despite occaisionally mingling with guys from Raw and Smackdown, they were not legitimate parts of the main show. Just like NXT guys and FCW guys aren't, despite occaisionally getting called up. ECW was basically AAA minor leagues.
That is a blatant lie. Again, ECW WAS a WWE brand, that was recognized as part of the roster, it was not NXT. I repeat, NOT NXT. Why you continue to perpetrate this myth for the sake of acting like Punk was pushed more than he was is beyond me. And the ONLY reason he won MITB was because Jeff Hardy, the intended winner got suspended for drug use and they said "well, let's just make the guy who doesn't do drugs champion, he won't fuck us over".
Again, so is FCW and NXT.
But as I stated in my original post, even if you include that time, Punk for the ECW world title and held it for nearly half a year. Immediately after getting drafted to the WWE roster, eh won the WHC right away. He went on to win it 2 more times, and the WWE title two more times, and in the past 5 years held EACH of the WWE world titles longer than John Cena did.
Again, those statistics are outright lies.
If you looked them up rather than go by "what you can recall", you'd know that those numbers are correct. Started from when CM Punk was drafted from ECW to the main WWE roster, those stats are 100% correct.
They also don't sound accurate.
That's because you're too lazy to look them up since you're so sure you're right. Look on WWE.com and look up the title history yourself. You will see I am correct.
Aaaaaaaaand your argument just went up in smoke. Not every god damn way of determining who's been pushed the hardest has to do with who's been champion for the longest time.
And yet it's a big part of it. You only wish my argument went up in smoke, because thus far you've posted zero facts to counter my facts.
That's because there aren't any facts to refute reality. CM Punk has had both the WWE title and the WHC title for longer than John Cena over the last 5 years. You cannot refute this because it's true. The gap in time he's had either of those two titles over Cena is also massive.
Punk got weak competition and was defending the title in the middle of the show, Cena got strong competition and was in the main event 100% of the time unless an extremely special circumstance happened like a Streak match.
Rationalization and straw grasping. CM Punk was still the WWE champion for a very long period of time. You're simply complaining that WWE was not putting Punk's face on their posters and putting his match last.
They weren't doing that because he wasn't drawing as much as Cena. It has nothing to do with holding CM Punk back. CM Punk was afforded every opportunity to get over. He received: Lots of mic time, was constantly in a fued of some kind, held a title for nearly half of his career since being drafted to WWE roster, has gone over John Cena cleanly multiple times, has been allowed to break kayfabe and PG repeatedly, and last but not least, has been heavily pushed as WWE champion for 75% of the last 16 months (100% of the last 11).
Speaking of PPV records, CM Punk hasn't lost a match in PPVs in a year. If you wondered, John Cena's record in PPVs is is 6-6-2 since Summer of Punk started last year.
Again, lies and misinformation. ECW counts.
Again, obviously not lies or misinformation. I pointed out early in my post that I was talking about from Punk's time on the WWE roster, not from his time on the ECW roster.
You can talk about his time in ECW too, but to sit here and claim what I said was a lie is bullshit and you know it. Again, you have nothing to say but to pretend I'm "lying" when nothing I said was a lie.
If you want to see how he was held back, watch his DVD. They lay that shit out VERY clearly. They never even planned to debut him on tv, they were going to fire him in developmental for no reason and he just got lucky because Heyman demanded he be brought up for ECW.
I don't need to watch his dvd. I have watched the last 7 years of WWE to know that he has been heavily pushed.
I can also read, and comprehend the numbers that CM Punk has been WWE and WHC champion longer than John Cena over the past 5 years.
I don't debate that CM Punk may have had trouble starting (most guys do), but people are still claiming he's being held back and that WWE isn't giving him enough chances. The guy has had nothing but pushes for 5+ years, and has had world titles for logner than John Cena over that span.
Your entire post is summed up with: "You didn't include ECW as part of his WWE career, so I'm going to pretend that all of your factually correct numbers, including dating the point at which you started tallying them are "lies" even though they aren't, because that's the only way I can pretend to have an argument".