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post #8191 of 9175 (permalink) Old 11-29-2012, 08:19 PM
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Re: **The Official Raw Ratings Thread** (Discuss Ratings In Here)

Yeah, Cena is the only guy with real star power on the roster. Not saying this to bash Punk though, he definitely showed he could be something huge last summer but boy did that ever change.
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post #8192 of 9175 (permalink) Old 11-29-2012, 08:38 PM
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Re: **The Official Raw Ratings Thread** (Discuss Ratings In Here)

There is a laundry list of problems with the WWE product, and that's before you get to in-ring talent. The whole structure of the organization is askew and has been for awhile now. Whenever they have something that works, and can be big they fumble the ball.


Just think about all the strikes they have been set up with the last few years and how many of them they quickly snuffed out for little to no reason. Wrestlers generate interest then the front office kills it.


Its the organization. Its not like anyone can sink their teeth into anything out there. Dolph is the only motivated act on the screen at times and he's even stuck in something pathetic and poorly written.


Ultimately we need to resign ourselves to the fact that VKM has the final say over what goes on that TV screen. Its got shit to do with any on screen talent, Vince isn't motivating the talent, he's not giving the fans interesting television and its a cop out to blame anyone else.


Complaining like the talent is fucking up is the wrong way to critique the product. Its not like these cats are turning chicken salad into chicken shit out there. They have chicken shit given to them.


The way the company operates is in disarray and the product is stale beyond belief, what can that produce but shit? We have this innate desire to always blame the workers for the problems of the company. Its almost like the truth that a multimillionaire businessman is fucking up on his own is hard to swallow.


I'm almost at the point of absolving the creative team from blame and placing it solely on the shoulders of Vince. You have plenty of smart guys like Dusty & Michael Hayes that know the business and how to book and even its unfair to them to shit on the creative team when ultimately Vince makes the decisions on who goes on TV and does what and says what to whom and when.


They can't do shit about it, and the talent can't do shit about it.
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post #8193 of 9175 (permalink) Old 11-29-2012, 09:17 PM
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Re: **The Official Raw Ratings Thread** (Discuss Ratings In Here)

WWE certainly need to let guys just be themselves. Stop trying to fit square pegs into round holes. These are not actors, they are professional wrestlers. Stop trying to make them memorize promos & shit & let them just be wrestlers. Can you imagine if Ric Flair or Dusty Rhodes had promos written for them in the 80's? I mean, c'mon...

It's like WWE is against people getting themselves over or something. Let things happen organically & naturally & stop trying to create artificial & fabricated characters & scenarios. Even basic booking 101 has went out the window. In what other era could you fathom a feud starting in a cage match on Pay-Per-View? Can you imagine if Magnum & Tully started in a cage?
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post #8194 of 9175 (permalink) Old 11-29-2012, 09:42 PM
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Re: **The Official Raw Ratings Thread** (Discuss Ratings In Here)

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Originally Posted by Walk-In View Post
WWE certainly need to let guys just be themselves. Stop trying to fit square pegs into round holes. These are not actors, they are professional wrestlers. Stop trying to make them memorize promos & shit & let them just be wrestlers. Can you imagine if Ric Flair or Dusty Rhodes had promos written for them in the 80's? I mean, c'mon...

It's like WWE is against people getting themselves over or something. Let things happen organically & naturally & stop trying to create artificial & fabricated characters & scenarios. Even basic booking 101 has went out the window. In what other era could you fathom a feud starting in a cage match on Pay-Per-View? Can you imagine if Magnum & Tully started in a cage?
Exactly!! Let these guys WORK!! Vince micro-managed Steve Austin for almost 2 years, when he let go...it worked. Vince micro-managed Rocky Maivia, when he let it go...it worked. If a guy has it in him to be major it'll show when you let him be himself. The cream will rise to the top and the fans will support it.


That fool is going in the opposite direction. Dolph should have dropped that name 2 years ago. Vince has been trying to push him for 3 years and it hasn't worked because he's not a damn actor!


The concept of just telling a guy to go be himself and see what comes out is dead to Vince now. That's ridiculous because it WORKS!! People want someone to be the guy that breaks the mold, somebody has to bring color to black & white.
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post #8195 of 9175 (permalink) Old 11-29-2012, 09:48 PM
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Re: **The Official Raw Ratings Thread** (Discuss Ratings In Here)

EDIT: Couple of good points above me. Nice to see the thread taking a momentary turn with actual discussions taking place.

Let's be honest with ourselves; three hours for a movie alone is hard enough as it is. Three hours for a weekly television show, coupled with a hefty cast of supporting shows like SmackDown, Main Event, etc, is murder and overkill to the highest degree. We all knew it was going to underline weaknesses the product had in it's two hour format, and it undoubtedly has done so (although I'm probably in the minority in thinking they've done some things better now than from what I saw earlier in the year).

It's a shame as the wrestling action has been really carried out well be many top-notch performers willing to improve, yet we have some people on this forum even saying they don't watch for the wrestling and only for an individuals speaking abilities or some crap. They blame the in-ring aspect for dwindling interest.

What many fans have come to realise as they've gotten older (and something the brass seem to have forgotten) is that all these...em, criterion I guess we class it as, are individual aspects that put over the feud or story being settled by two or more opponents. How well that angle is put over depends on the talent's abilities of course, but that is simply not enough if the story is lacklustre. Lots and lots of people want to see rivalries, feuds, and competition take place like real life situations and have the foundations of pro wrestling take over, drum it up as only pro wrestling can and still have people buy into the rivalry as if it were real life. They want to suspend belief for this stuff and want to buy into it.

I don't know if Vince or his underlings think that pro wrestling is an outdated concept, but playing mainstream catchup takes the best of both worlds and throws it to the dirt. It makes him and his company look ridiculously dated and desperate to everyone bar the unwashed masses and too-loyal patrons. People in the public that think that wrestling's gay fake fighting would have more ammunition against it, and the core fan base is turned away from it because it does, indeed, 'jump the shark'. Don't give into fickleness, but at least be pro active in improving the quality of it, old boy. Let those who know about the industry have a crack at it. Think about the marketing of it, but don't actively alienate people away when doing so.

As for the Punk dilemma, the only people who should be worried about it aren't so much his fans (many of whom claim they don't care about the ratings, yet jump for joy when he miraculously pulls out a good viewership number), but more so the company and the guy himself. Company is condemned to the knowledge of how they dropped the ball with his push in its early stages, and Punk is condemned to the knowledge that he's not the big commodity that he'd want to be and may well be on his last legs as a major player pending a superb program with Rock or someone else that rekindles some genuine spark from the masses. I'm of the belief his existent star power and appeal is withering badly with this run to the point where people may start to avoid him and his obnoxious reign as champ (as well as any other major runs in the future). Writing to someone's strengths and best abilities help give birth to a star, which is mush more significant and substantial than pushing anyone with muscles and height, and it would take great investment for a 365+ day reign to be captivating for even a significant portion. Aside from a couple of bright spots this hasn't been much more then run-of-the-mill, particularly after his heel turn. The elements were there I feel, but they were capitalised on in a shallow manner with not much thinking behind it all (outside the love triangle and events leading up to it, which worked for the most part in my mind).

That article posted was quite funny as well. People do seem to let the guy get to them with his snideness, grumpiness and little remarks here and there. The person behind CM Punk appears to hate ignorance in any capacity, especially in regards to his profession. I admit though it is a little funny to see it turned against him, as he does attract it with that apparent brash, obnoxious, I'm-smart-but-not-as-smart-as-I-wish-to-be attitude.

Last edited by -Skullbone-; 11-29-2012 at 11:58 PM.
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post #8196 of 9175 (permalink) Old 11-29-2012, 10:00 PM
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Re: **The Official Raw Ratings Thread** (Discuss Ratings In Here)

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Originally Posted by Phenomenal One View Post
oh ma.. look at me, i'm cool and don't give a shit because my fav guy is doing shit ratings.

Punk is a ratings killer. just accept it.. match with Kane did 2.28.. ya do your math.

a real douche deserves this ratings..

you will see the effect in ratings once he loses it.
Coming from the guy with ADR in his avatar

I don't give a shit if he's a draw or not. I watch Punk to be entertained not care about ratings every week.


Last edited by Stad; 11-29-2012 at 10:10 PM.
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post #8197 of 9175 (permalink) Old 11-29-2012, 10:32 PM
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Re: **The Official Raw Ratings Thread** (Discuss Ratings In Here)

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Coming from the guy with ADR in his avatar
No offense but what the fuck does that have to do with anything? It shouldn't matter if someone has an avatar of a tractor or an erect penis or an old woman in a wig, it doesn't make what they type any less valid. Talk about grasping as straws dude, for real. Grow up.
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post #8198 of 9175 (permalink) Old 11-29-2012, 10:47 PM
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Re: **The Official Raw Ratings Thread** (Discuss Ratings In Here)

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Exactly!! Let these guys WORK!! Vince micro-managed Steve Austin for almost 2 years, when he let go...it worked. Vince micro-managed Rocky Maivia, when he let it go...it worked.
And when he let Punk cut loose for one night only in the summer of last year, that actually worked. But they haven't let him do anything remotely that interesting since.
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post #8199 of 9175 (permalink) Old 11-29-2012, 11:16 PM
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Re: **The Official Raw Ratings Thread** (Discuss Ratings In Here)

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And when he let Punk cut loose for one night only in the summer of last year, that actually worked. But they haven't let him do anything remotely that interesting since.
Or Ziggler or even it seems a guy like Titus. A lot of the characters fall flat now because they come of as stilted and fake.. too scripted. Most wrestlers are not actors. And even so, wrestling is a business in which acting doesn't quite work in the same way. With the amount of time these guys are the characters, it just seems it's best that they amplify aspects of their own personality.

It not only seems to make it easier for the wrestlers to not only get over, but for the audience to shut off disbelief and willingly go for the ride. There are very few, if any top tier talents that were pure characters like McMahon is trying to construct. The only two I could possibly argue are Kane and Taker.. but you have seen them evolve and tact closer to what the real person seems to be like over their original "gimmicky" beginnings.

Thanks for the wonderful memories Ultimate Warrior... happy you got to be recognised as the legend you are before you went. Rest in peace


Raw is like watching Dexter's finale every week... why did I do that to myself for so long?
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post #8200 of 9175 (permalink) Old 11-29-2012, 11:37 PM
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Re: **The Official Raw Ratings Thread** (Discuss Ratings In Here)

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And when he let Punk cut loose for one night only in the summer of last year, that actually worked. But they haven't let him do anything remotely that interesting since.
Exactly.
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