WrestleMania 19: The greatest WrestleMania of all time? (long read) - Page 5 - Wrestling Forum : WWE, TNA, ROH, Wrestling Videos, Women of Wrestling Forums
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Old 10-10-2013, 06:57 AM   #41 (permalink)
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Default Re: WrestleMania 19: The greatest WrestleMania of all time? (long read)

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I liked 17 and 22 (other the the World and WWE Title Match finishes) both better than WM 19, 19 was still good though...
Even Taker/Henry?
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Old 10-10-2013, 07:24 AM   #42 (permalink)
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Default Re: WrestleMania 19: The greatest WrestleMania of all time? (long read)

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But that ends up being meaningless in the end when the wrestling itself more than makes up for it. And not to mention, there was a lot of great build going into 19. A lot of the feuds were excellent.



And yet it fitted in perfectly with the way that Austin could end his career. Having one last match at Wrestlemania against his longtime rival, the Rock, who never beat him before at Wrestlemania. They ended up having a great bout and it was a great way to end things for Austin.



He was the last WCW champion that WCW ever had, he was already a big and established name. I honestly think they could've went with something better as well, but for what it was worth, it was a great match imo and it served its purpose.

And also, Vince was really high on Lesnar, which was why they had the Smackdown title match main event the show.



Except the mid card matches are a big part of the reason as to why I think the show was so incredible. It wasn't just the main matches. Hardy/Mysterio was an insane cruiserweight match despite its short length, and was an excellent way to start out the show. The Divas match was definitely worth watching and a good match. And the triple threat tag team match was an insane nonstop action match that kept you entertained through out its entirety.



None of that really matters to me. Because in the end I don't care for it. Well, I do, but it doesn't come into play when I decide what PPV's I thought were better. And just an fyi, I did watch at that time and I know about the significance of the event. But again, I'm doing this based entirely on the wrestling aspect, and in my view, Wrestlemania 19 blows Wrestlemania 17 out of the water.

It's like this. A lot of people praised Money in the Bank 2011. I for one freaking loved everything about that PPV and if I made a list of favorite PPVs, I'd probably have it in my top five somewhere. But I don't love it because of it's excellent build up, it's excellent atmosphere, or the fact that the people I wanted to win actually won (and I had my biggest mark out moment when Bryan surprisingly won MITB, a moment that showed WWE was willing to give the guy a chance), I loved it because it was a night filled with outstanding wrestling, started out well and ended on an incredible note with an outstanding main event match.

I simply had little to no complaints about MITB 2011. I can say the same about Wrestlemania 19. I can't say the same however for Wrestlemania 17, because there were parts of the show I did not enjoy from a wrestling standpoint.



Care to explain how it isn't better than Wrestlemania 20? (seriously, how is it not better? This is Wrestlemania 19 compared to Wrestlemania 20, cmon, please explain).
That MITB match is severely overrated wrestling quality wise and is filled with numerous botches. Punk Cena have had several better matches than that one (NOC, MNR). I disagree with you because if you turn that volume, build off on that match it will not stand the test of time like WM 17.

19 was a fine mid card but when you screw up the Main Events it doesn't work. In retrospect you can say that was Austin's last match but nobody knew that at the time. Booker T won 5 titles when WCW was circling the drain. If he was properly built up he could be in a WWF WrestleMania title match but he wasn't and that match was the 5th most build up match on the card. I could hate on Lesnar Angle but I liked it so I'm not. It just wasn't WrestleMania Main Event worthy with Austin and Rock hanging around.

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Old 10-10-2013, 11:45 AM   #43 (permalink)
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Default Re: WrestleMania 19: The greatest WrestleMania of all time? (long read)

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Care to explain how it isn't better than Wrestlemania 20? (seriously, how is it not better? This is Wrestlemania 19 compared to Wrestlemania 20, cmon, please explain).
Okay. You had this ongoing crap with the Miller Lite girls that had nothing to do with wrestling. You also had a Limp Bizkit mini concert(again I don't mind LB, but this isn't a concert). You had the wrong guys go over in its key matches(except the main event). The main event was not as good as XX's ME. With Mania XX the wrestling was a focus, the right guys won in its key matches, we also had "Wrestlemania moments" which people will never forget. Oh and the crowd was better than Seattle's.

Match quality isn't the only thing that determines how great/bad a ppv is.
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Old 10-10-2013, 11:51 AM   #44 (permalink)
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Default Re: WrestleMania 19: The greatest WrestleMania of all time? (long read)

WM19 was a much better show than WM20... but 20 had a better main event and celebration.
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Old 10-10-2013, 05:10 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Default Re: WrestleMania 19: The greatest WrestleMania of all time? (long read)

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That MITB match is severely overrated wrestling quality wise and is filled with numerous botches. Punk Cena have had several better matches than that one (NOC, MNR). I disagree with you because if you turn that volume, build off on that match it will not stand the test of time like WM 17.
People exaggerate the amount of botches that actually occurred in that match. First, I'm just going to say right now that their NOC and Raw matches were not better. That's a ridiculous statement. Their MITB match offered a lot more innovation, a lot more effort and heart, and a lot of things we never saw from either man. Rock/Austin did not have that.

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19 was a fine mid card but when you screw up the Main Events it doesn't work.


How did they screw up the main events?

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In retrospect you can say that was Austin's last match but nobody knew that at the time.
A lot of people knew that. Granted it wasn't a common knowledge sort of deal but there were quite a few people who knew about that being his last match.

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Booker T won 5 titles when WCW was circling the drain. If he was properly built up he could be in a WWF WrestleMania title match but he wasn't and that match was the 5th most build up match on the card. I could hate on Lesnar Angle but I liked it so I'm not. It just wasn't WrestleMania Main Event worthy with Austin and Rock hanging around.
How was it not Wrestlemania worthy? It was a WWE title match. It was as Wrestlemania worthy as you could get. It was the two best pro wrestlers WWE had to offer going up against each other.

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Okay. You had this ongoing crap with the Miller Lite girls that had nothing to do with wrestling. You also had a Limp Bizkit mini concert(again I don't mind LB, but this isn't a concert). You had the wrong guys go over in its key matches(except the main event). The main event was not as good as XX's ME. With Mania XX the wrestling was a focus, the right guys won in its key matches, we also had "Wrestlemania moments" which people will never forget. Oh and the crowd was better than Seattle's.

Match quality isn't the only thing that determines how great/bad a ppv is.
Rock, Hogan and Michaels were the wrong people to have go over? Why?

And wrestling was a focus? Are you shitting me? Were they focusing on the wrestling when they had the Kane/Taker and Lesnar/Goldberg matches? Or how about those classic and yet entirely pointless fatal four way tag team matches? Or how about that classic Cena/Show match that started out the show, that was a real show stealer wasn't it?

The main events were definitely better, I'll give you that one, but that's the only thing they had on Wrestlemania 19. The under and mid cards were a joke, with Christian/Jericho and the Cruiserweight match being the saving graces. The Handicap match was pretty good, but nothing special.
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Old 10-10-2013, 05:20 PM   #46 (permalink)
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Default Re: WrestleMania 19: The greatest WrestleMania of all time? (long read)

i liked when hhh did the indian death lock it showed how technical he is
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Old 10-10-2013, 06:19 PM   #47 (permalink)
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Default Re: WrestleMania 19: The greatest WrestleMania of all time? (long read)

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People exaggerate the amount of botches that actually occurred in that match. First, I'm just going to say right now that their NOC and Raw matches were not better. That's a ridiculous statement. Their MITB match offered a lot more innovation, a lot more effort and heart, and a lot of things we never saw from either man. Rock/Austin did not have that.





How did they screw up the main events?



A lot of people knew that. Granted it wasn't a common knowledge sort of deal but there were quite a few people who knew about that being his last match.



How was it not Wrestlemania worthy? It was a WWE title match. It was as Wrestlemania worthy as you could get. It was the two best pro wrestlers WWE had to offer going up against each other.



Rock, Hogan and Michaels were the wrong people to have go over? Why?

And wrestling was a focus? Are you shitting me? Were they focusing on the wrestling when they had the Kane/Taker and Lesnar/Goldberg matches? Or how about those classic and yet entirely pointless fatal four way tag team matches? Or how about that classic Cena/Show match that started out the show, that was a real show stealer wasn't it?

The main events were definitely better, I'll give you that one, but that's the only thing they had on Wrestlemania 19. The under and mid cards were a joke, with Christian/Jericho and the Cruiserweight match being the saving graces. The Handicap match was pretty good, but nothing special.
I'm sorry but Punk was a mess that night. You can see 5 poorly executed moves and botches in 4 minutes of highlights. No, it's not exaggerated. The match itself is highly overrated but great storyline, crowd, atmosphere so it gets the praise it deserves.

Already went over the matches that got screwed up. Don't care if a few insiders knew if it was Austin's last match that's irrelevant, and no Lesnar and Angle were not WWE's 2 top wrestlers. WWF's 2 top athletes without a doubt but Angle is at best the 4th guy on the roster at that time and Lesnar was a lot closer to Ryback than he was Goldberg. Talking character wise not wrestling wise obviously.

HHH going over Booker T is the big match ending that got screwed up.

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Old 10-10-2013, 06:47 PM   #48 (permalink)
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Default Re: WrestleMania 19: The greatest WrestleMania of all time? (long read)

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I'm sorry but Punk was a mess that night. You can see 5 poorly executed moves and botches in 4 minutes of highlights. No, it's not exaggerated. The match itself is highly overrated but great storyline, crowd, atmosphere so it gets the praise it deserves.
5 botches or poorly executed moves in a 30+ minute match is not that big of a deal.

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Already went over the matches that got screwed up. Don't care if a few insiders knew if it was Austin's last match that's irrelevant, and no Lesnar and Angle were not WWE's 2 top wrestlers. WWF's 2 top athletes without a doubt but Angle is at best the 4th guy on the roster at that time and Lesnar was a lot closer to Ryback than he was Goldberg. Talking character wise not wrestling wise obviously.
I said they were the WWE's top PRO WRESTLERS. This is a fact. They were the best pro wrestlers on the roster at the time, and there is no disputing that.

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HHH going over Booker T is the big match ending that got screwed up.
You said yourself that Booker T wasn't an established star right? So how was that a big screw up? It made sense to have Triple H win.

And who gives a damn what the result was, it was a very entertaining match, that's all that matters in my eyes. Who won doesn't take away the quality of the match.
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Old 10-10-2013, 07:46 PM   #49 (permalink)
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Default Re: WrestleMania 19: The greatest WrestleMania of all time? (long read)

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5 botches or poorly executed moves in a 30+ minute match is not that big of a deal.



I said they were the WWE's top PRO WRESTLERS. This is a fact. They were the best pro wrestlers on the roster at the time, and there is no disputing that.



You said yourself that Booker T wasn't an established star right? So how was that a big screw up? It made sense to have Triple H win.

And who gives a damn what the result was, it was a very entertaining match, that's all that matters in my eyes. Who won doesn't take away the quality of the match.
That's not a fact. Brock Lesnar is not a better wrestler than Benoit, Austin, Michaels, Jericho and a lot of others are debatable as well. Phenomenal athlete, very good wrestler for how green he was but not even close. Like I said though I don't want to hate on it because I liked it. It just wasn't Main Event worthy.

I said Booker T wasn't build up enough for it, and won the WCW belts when the company was circling the drain. I do think he was good enough for the moment if it was properly built. The program was just in all out fail and I just don't find much entertainment in mid card, filler World Championship matches. To each his own though.
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Old 10-10-2013, 08:06 PM   #50 (permalink)
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Default Re: WrestleMania 19: The greatest WrestleMania of all time? (long read)

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That's not a fact. Brock Lesnar is not a better wrestler than Benoit, Austin, Michaels, Jericho and a lot of others are debatable as well. Phenomenal athlete, very good wrestler for how green he was but not even close. Like I said though I don't want to hate on it because I liked it. It just wasn't Main Event worthy.

I said Booker T wasn't build up enough for it, and won the WCW belts when the company was circling the drain. I do think he was good enough for the moment if it was properly built. The program was just in all out fail and I just don't find much entertainment in mid card, filler World Championship matches. To each his own though.
Lesnar is easily a better wrestler than them. Are you kidding me? Are you aware of Lesnar's wrestling background? And when it came to cultivating Pro wrestling in with it, Lesnar was one of the best at doing so. He was a freakish athlete who actually had an impressive moveset, and could put on excellent matches with people smaller than him. In his prime Lesnar was easily the best pro wrestler in the business.

And that match was anything but filler. Unfortunately, circumstances stopped Booker from getting anywhere at that point, but at the time they had pretty big plans for him.
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