Official The Rock vs. John Cena Thread: Greatness vs. Redemption, TWICE IN A LIFETIME - Page 65 - Wrestling Forum : WWE, TNA, Indy Wrestling, Debate League, Women of Wrestling Forums
View Poll Results: Who will you be rooting for in the Rematch Of A Lifetime?
Rock 306 62.58%
Cena 183 37.42%
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post #641 of 3421 (permalink) Old 02-24-2013, 08:00 PM
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Re: Official The Rock vs. John Cena II Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by Dugweje View Post


If you really think John isn't going over the rock at wrestlemainia you are just marking out. Like the dude you quoted said, John Cena will not lose 3 straight mania main event or lose to the Rock again for the belt, especially since he hasn't had it for a year and a half. If John Cena loses at Mania I will rep every nearly every post you say.
He said the exact same thing last time word for word as for Rock going over him at Mania again i was 100% sure Cena was winning until the ER announcement i could be wrong but i take that bet i hope to get my good rep daily

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No problem bro, just thought it can be used a lot, especially now when The GOAT is coming back to be the Shark of greatness in the middle of a sea of mediocrity :Rock
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post #642 of 3421 (permalink) Old 02-24-2013, 10:11 PM
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Re: Official The Rock vs. John Cena II Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by itssoeasy23 View Post
And I'm getting sick and tired of the "shoved down our throats" bullshit that's spewed out by the internet wrestling community. He win's a lot because he's the top face, that's all. It's the John Cena show right now. Just in the 80's it was the Hogan show, and in the 90's it was the Stone Cold Steve Austin show. And before Hogan, it was the Sammartino show. There's always been a top face who's been booked super strong over the entire roster. I don't understand why with Cena, it's different. When Hogan was dominating, no one gave two craps. Same with Austin. Cena is booked the same way Austin and Hogan were booked. In fact, I say Cena is probably the worst booked top face they had.

Cena's the central character, he's the character the show and company is based around. They build up stars for him to face and beat, so he looks strong. It's not "shoving down the throats," it's wrestling booking 101. You book the top face to be as strong as humanly possible.
There's a difference between Sammartino/Hogan/Austin and Cena. The first 3 were massively popular with the entire audience. Cena is booed by almost half the entire audience.

This isn't the 60's, 70's, 80's, or even 90's anymore. Cena's character would fit in well back then but in this current age, his character is BEYOND STALE. Hell, Austin thought his character was stale after 4yrs (and that's with 1 yr on the shelf with injury). The Rock went from $500 shirt/slow-talking/cocky face Rock in 1999 to fast-talking/just bring it face Rock in 2001. That's a period of just 2yrs. Cena's been doing the same schtick for 8yrs and counting.

The best characters/gimmicks have multiple layers to them, like an onion regardless as a face or heel. Guys like Austin, Rock, HHH, Edge, Jericho, Punk,etc all have multiple layers to them. Cena doesn't. They had a chance to really add to his character last year, first with his Kane feud and Ryder/Eve storyline and how he took his friend's girl. Second, after his loss to Rock at WM 28 with the loss affecting him but they didn't. He just brushed it off like the loss didn't matter (which is another reason why him losing doesn't give his opponents any rub, but that's another discussion).



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Originally Posted by itssoeasy23 View Post
Who are these people you speak of?

Yes, it's not the 80's anymore. But it's not the 90's anymore either. Bad-asses don't draw anymore. If you want an example, look at TNA. Hogan and Austin were massively popular because wrestling was massively popular arpund the times they were top face. Cena's the top face when wrestling isn't as popular as it was. And that's because many different things, including the Benoit tragedy.

And I don't think he get's 75% of negative reaction in every arena. In some places, yeah. But most of the time it's either mix or even mostly cheers.

And the 75% of people that are booing him payed for their ticket to be there, so it's no loss to the WWE.

And please, enlighten me as too why Cena isn't deserving as the top face. Massively over? Check. Sell merchandise like crazy? Check. Is good in the ring? Check. Is great with media and PR? Check. Is good ob the mic? Check.

So why doesn't Cena deserve to be the top face?
Cena should've turned last year and WWE should've given CM Punk full reigns as top face. It would've completely changed the dynamics of the roster and product as a whole and may have developed another potential star or two, if not elevating others close to the top level. The only thing Punk was lacking was in the media/PR department. He was more over than Cena (and not getting booed), sold just as much if not more merchandise than Cena, and is arguably better in the ring and on the mic (though that is subjective). Sheamus might have future potential but is currently lacking in being over and merchandise department. Punk is now a heel. Del Rio is currently out of the question. Cena is still the top face by default.

The biggest reason why Cena doesn't deserve to be top face is that the top face SHOULD NEVER EVER be booed by almost half the crowd every time out, sometimes out of the building depending on the city. Hogan never received anything like that until he was in WCW (split reactions) but Hogan wasn't their top face, Sting was. Austin rarely got booed. Rock only really got booed in New York state (outside of NYC) but even then he still got solid pops.



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If he was bad on the mic, they wouldn't even give him a microphone to begin with. If he's bad in the ring like you say he is, Vince wouldn't put him in the ring to begin with, and wrestler's will REFUSE to work with him. And speaking of burying, you complain about Cena, yet you have CM Punk on your avator who has in your terms "buried" every single wrestler he's worked with. So think before you post instead of trying to stat your opinions as "facts"
Worse wrestlers have been given the mic and put in the ring so that reasoning is invalid. When did Punk bury any wrestler? He probably put over Bryan more than any other wrestler simply by putting on classics with him at OTL and MITB last year, showing the WWE Universe that Bryan is legit. Outside of Ziggler, I don't believe Cena really buried anyone but to say that Punk have buried ANYONE let alone EVERYONE is super ridiculous.



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Originally Posted by itssoeasy23 View Post
No, I'm not drunk. I'm telling the truth. if you think Cena is, as you say, "talentless," than I can't help you. I would think after countless good matches that people would own up and admit that Cena is good in the ring, at least top ten in the company today. And, if he was "talentless," why was his match with Khali and Lashley the best match of their career's?

In your opinion, he sucks. It's a fact that's he a good in-ring worker and it's a fact he can be good on the mic. Your can say all you want about you think Cena is "shoved down people's throats" or some bullshit, but my entire post you are responding too is fact, after fact. And you retort with opinions, it doesn't make a difference.

And you can't just find a top face out of the blue. WWE were scrambling for years for a top face after Austin left, and they found with Cena. Why would they risk turning him heel if it end's up the same why Austin's hell turn was. It a loss financially, and ended up being one of the biggest mistakes the company ever made. Why would they do it again when Cena is clearly still liked by a huge portion of the crowd?

And beating someone is not "burying" someone. Give me a legit example of him "burying" someone. And you say how you had to see him of some of the best superstars in a ten year span. Who? Triple H, Shawn Michaels, Jericho, Angle, Edge? Well, I'm sorry to tell you but that's how you build up a top face and move on to another era. You have your top face beat the guys from the last era. They were doing the same thing with Lesnar in mid 2002, and I don't see anyone complaining about that, ever. But with Cena, it's different?

And how is Cena untalented? How is he a phony? If he was those things please give me an example as to why you think so. Because right now, your arguing opinions with my facts. It's like your arguing the sky is brown when it's clearly blue.



And?

The people that are booing him at the arena's paid for their tickets. Do it's no loss to the WWE.
You cannot pass of your own opinions as facts. Hi, Pot. Meet Kettle. Unless it's it's proven scientifically, it's an opinion and subjective. I personally don't think that Cena sucks in the ring or on the mic, however I'm not going to argue against or for someone that thinks he's good or that he sucks either. It depends on perspective. Someone may think Cena completely sucks because his workrate is subpar, he's a poor seller, and he ends all his matches in the same sequential order. Someone else may think he's good because he delivers solid to very good matches at PPV's every time out. Both points are valid.



The biggest differences between Austin then and Cena now is:

1) The business was at its peak back in 2001 so they had nowhere to go but down whereas they have everything to gain now due to the business being stagnant.
2) People still loved Austin then and didn't want to boo him. Same sentiment doesn't apply to Cena.



You want an example of Cena burying someone? Look no further back than his promo on Dolph Ziggler on the New Year's Eve Raw when Ziggler and AJ were in the ring. It was brutal. Why put Ziggler over at TLC only to erase any heat he got from that match and lower his status by a few simple words?

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post #643 of 3421 (permalink) Old 02-24-2013, 10:55 PM
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Re: Official The Rock vs. John Cena II Discussion Thread

I hope there is a cena heel turn to save the ppv.

It's human nature. Never satisfied.
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post #644 of 3421 (permalink) Old 02-24-2013, 11:58 PM
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Re: Official The Rock vs. John Cena II Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by itssoeasy23 View Post
Who are these people you speak of?

Yes, it's not the 80's anymore. But it's not the 90's anymore either. Bad-asses don't draw anymore. If you want an example, look at TNA. Hogan and Austin were massively popular because wrestling was massively popular arpund the times they were top face. Cena's the top face when wrestling isn't as popular as it was. And that's because many different things, including the Benoit tragedy.

And I don't think he get's 75% of negative reaction in every arena. In some places, yeah. But most of the time it's either mix or even mostly cheers.

And the 75% of people that are booing him payed for their ticket to be there, so it's no loss to the WWE.

And please, enlighten me as too why Cena isn't deserving as the top face. Massively over? Check. Sell merchandise like crazy? Check. Is good in the ring? Check. Is great with media and PR? Check. Is good ob the mic? Check.

So why doesn't Cena deserve to be the top face?
You say badass babyfaces don't draw I beg to differ on that. Yes wrestling was hot in the 90's and that's why a guy like Austin really fit with the times but Austin had much more to offer than just the typical goody 2 shoes babyface the WWE had in the 80's. Austin had the ability to connect with the fans. Which should be the ultimate goal of any babyface . The fans are suppose to be behind the babyface. Yes no wrestler has ever been universally loved but when you have your top face of the company getting booed by the majority of the fans in every arena there is a huge problem there.

I don't doubt Cena is a good employee for WWE. It's well documented Cena's charity work and the good PR he does for WWE and I do respect him for that. But that doesn't mean he deserves to be the face of the company. He doesn't connect with the majority of the fans and yes I realize his fanbase is kids but the thing is kids and families make up a small portion of WWE's fanbase. The most important demographic in wrestling will always be the 18-40 male demographic.

Cena was force fed on us the fans didn't ask for him to be the top face of the company. And for the past 8 years a lot of us fans have made it clear we are sick of the guy. Cena may do well selling merchandise to kids but it is a fact since he has been on top of the WWE the last 8 years ratings have dropped. By the time he retires no one is ever going to consider him one of the all time greats. WWE has had many opportunities to freshen up his character but they keep choosing to keep him as this boring stale babyface.


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post #645 of 3421 (permalink) Old 02-25-2013, 12:14 AM
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Re: Official The Rock vs. John Cena II Discussion Thread

Rock needs to job. We don't need Super Rock to replace Super Cena, that's enough of that shit. Its obvious that Punk is probably going to be inserted into this match to take a pinfall and give the belt back to Cena. This is a transitional run for Rocky nothing major. He may try to get a one on one rematch for Extreme Rules where Cena will go over again. People will bitch and moan but in the end its probably the right thing to do.
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post #646 of 3421 (permalink) Old 02-25-2013, 12:19 AM
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Re: Official The Rock vs. John Cena II Discussion Thread

Pretty obvious to me Cena is behind Ryback's losses and eventual heel turn. Nice excuse to use to keep Cena the top star. My theory and I'm sticking to it.

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post #647 of 3421 (permalink) Old 02-25-2013, 03:04 PM
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Re: Official The Rock vs. John Cena II Discussion Thread

No to the triple threat and no to a Ryback heel turn.

Although knowing the WWE I expect them to do both.

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post #648 of 3421 (permalink) Old 02-25-2013, 03:31 PM
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Re: Official The Rock vs. John Cena II Discussion Thread

At this point I'm just hoping against hope that the crowd in NJ shits all over this match, which they could if they wanted to.

I get that The Rock being champion for WM will draw the casuals and ex-fans in, I get that it's a bigger money match than Punk/Rock or Punk/Cena, I even sort of get that Cena should probably actually get a win this WM since he's jobbed out the last 2 years. What I don't get is why we're 6 weeks away on the RTWM, and the champion of the company isn't even on the fucking show. What exactly is Rock doing that is more important than the build towards the biggest show of the year?

Don't get me wrong, on the night I'll still be rooting for The Rock, because fuck Cena. But seriously, this match is absolute balls.


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post #649 of 3421 (permalink) Old 02-25-2013, 03:34 PM
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Re: Official The Rock vs. John Cena II Discussion Thread

Only with The Rock or with The Miz i can root for Cena

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post #650 of 3421 (permalink) Old 02-25-2013, 03:47 PM
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Re: Official The Rock vs. John Cena II Discussion Thread

I don't think the reaction he gets will even be that bad probably his usual mixed responses. Its not like we haven't seen wrestlemanias where Cena has won in-front of thousands of smarks.

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