Official The Rock vs. John Cena Thread: Greatness vs. Redemption, TWICE IN A LIFETIME - Page 35 - Wrestling Forum : WWE, TNA, Debate League, Wrestling Videos, Women of Wrestling Forums

View Poll Results: Who will you be rooting for in the Rematch Of A Lifetime?

Rock 306 62.58%
Cena 183 37.42%
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Old 02-18-2013, 03:31 PM   #341 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official The Rock vs. John Cena II Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by itssoeasy23 View Post
Yeah, losing to a Laurantitis, that made him look really strong. Or how about being pinned clean by Punk. Or losing to Ziggler. Or losing to Rock.

That's 4 loses in one year. Austin probably never had 4 loses in one year, same with Hogan. It's not that he's booked like a midcarder, it's just that he loses much more than he should be when he's the top face of the company.
Uhh...yeah, Austin had 4 loses in 1 year...

1999-Lost the Rumble being last eliminated, lost the WWF title to Taker at Over the Edge, lost the WWF title to Mankind at Summerslam, lost his WWF title match with Trips at No Mercy, lost his position as CEO to Vince and Shane in a ladder match at KOTR 1999. There, that's 5. Hell, that's 10 months, not even a year. If you want to go a full calendar year from November 1998 until November 1999 (when he was injured), he lost at Survivor Series 1998 to Mankind and he lost his WWF title match against Rock the night after Survivor Series 1998 (technically he won the match via DQ, but for all intents and purposes he didn't win the title, so I count this as a loss).

So yeah, that's a nice myth. Opinions and beliefs =/= facts.

And yet was Austin's momentum phased at all? Of course not. So this idea that Cena HAS to get his win back because of how 'NOT' often he loses is a load of shit.


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Originally Posted by itssoeasy23 View Post
Yeah, people may reject the idea of Cena in the same bracket as Hogan/Austin/Rock. But, it makes all the sense in the world for WWE to do that. He's been the top face for almost 9 years strong. That's enough credibility for him to be in the same bracket as Hogan, Austin and Rock.

A win over The Rock does nothing for Cena in the long run? The Rock is the biggest star he will ever face besides Taker at Mania. They will book Cena over Rock at WrestleMania 29, than use that as a jumpstart to Cena/Taker at WM 30.

Oh, and The Rock was a huge star in the late 90's and early 2000's. Why did he have to beat Hogan and Austin two years in a row? That's how you put over someone. Their going to put Cena over Rock and move on from the "Rock is God" stuff and we'll move back to reality.
Uh, no. Being in the same bracket as the all time greats and being presented on the same level as the all time greats are two totally different things. They could book fucking Darren Young as the top face for almost 9 years, will that suddenly create enough credibility for him to be in the same bracket? Absolutely not. Just because the WWE wants it to look that way doesn't mean it is.

Yes, in the long run a win over Rock means not one single thing. Why is that? Because winning and losing have been so badly fucked with that it literally doesn't matter who wins and loses anymore. Part of this is because we see matches like Orton/Barrett, Sheamus/Ziggler or Del Rio/Ryder almost every fucking week for months on end. When you get to the 10th time they face on TV in 2 months, you've told the audience "these matches really don't matter." Now its like that for all matches. Remember Once in a Lifetime? They couldn't even keep that fucking stipulation. They're going to milk this match just like all their other matches and it'll continue to reinforce that there's nothing novel or unique anymore, and that outcomes don't matter. Speaking of outcomes not mattering, your boy Cena really hammers that home when he no sells whatever losses he might incur. "I lost...whatever, I man up to it, besides I know I'm the best already." Ugh. Last year, after Cena's crushing loss, they all but forgot it the very next night when Brock debuted.

Let's not even start on the fact that Cena has already been handed so many fucking accomplishments that he doesn't NEED to be put over anymore. Why some people argue this, I'll never understand.
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Old 02-18-2013, 03:43 PM   #342 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official The Rock vs. John Cena II Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by bboy View Post
I want a serious debate with any rock marks or anyone else who thinks rock promo skills are actually any good. I mean what do you constitute good mic skills?

The guy is using the same shit he used back in 1999, it's no longer relevant and it's stale. Secondly his promo's are all pretty childish, let's make fun of the way someone looks or throw a load of sexual innuendos at someone. Rock may even sing a song about his next opponenent. Last year he bore the heck out of everyone with the consistent twitter plugs so at least he has cut that shit out. He pauses during his promo's to try to get the fans to cheer for him and then starts smiling when 1 or 2 people cheer for him.

I mean seriously, I could name quite a few who are better mic workers than the rock in the business right now. I find it quite amusing how the blind rock lovers seem to think he is the best at everything.
Part time wrestlers don't change their gimmicks after a 10 year layoff. People want nostalgia not a brand new character. Especially if you're a face.

Look at Jericho. Now he's back to doing his catch phrases too. Better in ring worker, but he always has been better than the Rock in that category.
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Old 02-18-2013, 03:51 PM   #343 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official The Rock vs. John Cena II Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by bboy View Post
When was the last time rock had a good match? I can't remember because he has'nt had one in the last 10 years. Rock marks want to make him out to be this great talent who is great at everything.

Fact is his mic skills are mediocre, he is no way in a condition to have a match and his sequences of moves are piss poor and exactly the same as when he was in wwe 10 or so years ago.

Fact is you put rock in the ring with a cena or a punk and he still can't have a decent match, this shows had bad the rock is.
Last time Rock had a good match...probably 2002. No shame in admitting that, its the truth. Vengeance vs Taker and Kurt was great and Summerslam vs Brock was solid as well.

I also agree that Rock these days isn't as great as he used to be, but I'm in the small minority that hated Hollywood Rock and think his promo style changed for the worse at the beginning of 2002.

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what makes you think fans will boo cena more than they will boo the rock? What has rock actually done for the business the last 10 or so years? fuck all. Whilst cena has wrestled week in and week out and dedicates his life to the business. Yet fans at the minute boo cena and cheer the rock? I tell you what, these dumb ass fans really are a bunch of mindless sheep if they cheer the rock over cena.
Now this is what I really wanted to comment on.

Fans will boo Cena. Why? Because Cena is the face of the downfall of pro wrestling. All of us fans who it there with a group of friends and have to look down at the floor and say "yeah...I'm actually a fan of wrestling", or are afraid to admit it in public because of the comments...all Cena. He's the living incarnation of the phrase "why its not cool to be a wrestling fan anymore."

He's also the result of the WWE's efforts to basically destroy fundamental, basic concepts of pro wrestling in an effort to get him over when the fans (you know, the ones who Vince and company rely on to make a living) are almost always chanting WE DON'T WANT TO SEE THIS MAN ANYMORE. You ever hear of a performer in history who, at the conclusion of a match he lost, tell you that everything that happened before with him not winning doesn't matter and that he's STILL on top? No, because its a fucking retarded concept. And yet to get Cena over, that's what they do. Now you may say "well that's just Cena's character." In that case, Cena's character is fucking retarded and his existence in pro wrestling is literally cancerous. No selling everything bad that happens to him basically means that no one can work with the guy unless it means Cena comes out on top. In other words, why would anyone on earth give a flying fuck about what he does? Either he wins and the IWC collectively groans or he loses and he says it meant nothing anyway. Feuds in this industry, nay, INTEREST in this industry depends on both the winners and losers acting in unison to convince you that their little circus act in the ring actually has some consequences and that you should try to invest yourself in it. Cena's character, or Cena himself, expressly violates that principle. And its not like he's down the card, he's the top guy. People on the outer rim getting into what's going on will first look at the main event, and when they see the fecal matter he's churning out, they won't come back. Why? Because they don't care. "Well this guy Cena just lost and he's acting like he doesn't care...so why should I exactly?" At that point the channel changes.

Oh, let's also talk about how Cena's dedication should be the primary motivation for us cheering him. Do you realize how insane this sounds? Why don't we cheer Tensai all the time. I'm sure he's just as committed a worker. What about Yoshi Tatsu? The truth is that fans cheer what they see, not particulars that go on back stage. They see Cena...they're sick of seeing Cena...they are vocal in that they want him to go away...yet he never does...that makes them angrier and they boo more.

What has Rock done for wrestling...well, he's made Vince a shit load of money, he's made the fans happy by appearing again, he's helped to strengthen the connection between wrestling and the mainstream media, he's ensured a very nice payday for anyone working on the card with him, he's increased PPV buys and interest in the company...but you're right, its not really anything...

Let's be clear on this-Rock HAS a career outside the WWE. He didn't need to come back for a lot of money, he's already making a lot of money. The only thing that could make him come back is that he wants to come back. There's literally nothing this business has to offer for him except what he wants to give to it.
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Old 02-18-2013, 03:53 PM   #344 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official The Rock vs. John Cena II Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by KO Bossy View Post
Uhh...yeah, Austin had 4 loses in 1 year...

1999-Lost the Rumble being last eliminated, lost the WWF title to Taker at Over the Edge, lost the WWF title to Mankind at Summerslam, lost his WWF title match with Trips at No Mercy, lost his position as CEO to Vince and Shane in a ladder match at KOTR 1999. There, that's 5. Hell, that's 10 months, not even a year. If you want to go a full calendar year from November 1998 until November 1999 (when he was injured), he lost at Survivor Series 1998 to Mankind and he lost his WWF title match against Rock the night after Survivor Series 1998 (technically he won the match via DQ, but for all intents and purposes he didn't win the title, so I count this as a loss).

So yeah, that's a nice myth. Opinions and beliefs =/= facts.

And yet was Austin's momentum phased at all? Of course not. So this idea that Cena HAS to get his win back because of how 'NOT' often he loses is a load of shit.




Uh, no. Being in the same bracket as the all time greats and being presented on the same level as the all time greats are two totally different things. They could book fucking Darren Young as the top face for almost 9 years, will that suddenly create enough credibility for him to be in the same bracket? Absolutely not. Just because the WWE wants it to look that way doesn't mean it is.

Yes, in the long run a win over Rock means not one single thing. Why is that? Because winning and losing have been so badly fucked with that it literally doesn't matter who wins and loses anymore. Part of this is because we see matches like Orton/Barrett, Sheamus/Ziggler or Del Rio/Ryder almost every fucking week for months on end. When you get to the 10th time they face on TV in 2 months, you've told the audience "these matches really don't matter." Now its like that for all matches. Remember Once in a Lifetime? They couldn't even keep that fucking stipulation. They're going to milk this match just like all their other matches and it'll continue to reinforce that there's nothing novel or unique anymore, and that outcomes don't matter. Speaking of outcomes not mattering, your boy Cena really hammers that home when he no sells whatever losses he might incur. "I lost...whatever, I man up to it, besides I know I'm the best already." Ugh. Last year, after Cena's crushing loss, they all but forgot it the very next night when Brock debuted.

Let's not even start on the fact that Cena has already been handed so many fucking accomplishments that he doesn't NEED to be put over anymore. Why some people argue this, I'll never understand.
John Cena is the face of the company and that's why he's entitled to the biggest moments the company has to offer.

Cry about it all you want but that's how the system works. Nobody gets a victory over Rock until John Cena gets his.
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Old 02-18-2013, 03:53 PM   #345 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official The Rock vs. John Cena II Discussion Thread

I must spread rep before repping KO bossy.

Another great post!
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Old 02-18-2013, 04:15 PM   #346 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official The Rock vs. John Cena II Discussion Thread

Wouldn't even know where to start in picking apart the stupid statements from bboy. Fortunately, better posters than me already have, i'll give a brief insight though. Not a good mic worker? For a start, he can sell a feud, he puts his opponents over in promos. Whereas John elects to smile his way through everything.
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Old 02-18-2013, 04:20 PM   #347 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official The Rock vs. John Cena II Discussion Thread

I can't wait to skip their whole feud.

So pumped!
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Old 02-18-2013, 04:27 PM   #348 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official The Rock vs. John Cena II Discussion Thread

The rock is one of the most charismatic people I have ever seen in pro wrestling. Amazing. Maybe not so much now but in his prime he was untouchable. This feud will suck more than their first one btw.
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Old 02-18-2013, 04:27 PM   #349 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official The Rock vs. John Cena II Discussion Thread

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I can't wait to skip their whole feud.

So pumped!
One less person to complain about it I'm pumped too.
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Old 02-18-2013, 04:51 PM   #350 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official The Rock vs. John Cena II Discussion Thread

Whenever I see this thread title I sigh..
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