[Elijah89]

[quote=GillbergReturns;14083338]

Originally Posted by Elijah89

With Lesnar booked thru WM 31 I'm not convinced Taker is retiring just yet. Taker is not necessarily done after Cena and WM 30.

Cena is even a bigger threat than Lesnar. You guys honestly think that Brock is going to beat The Undertaker? You guys would be more nervous watching a match between The Undertaker and John Cena. They would not consider handing the streak to someone who is not going to be there for the long haul. But if you guys want to get excited about predictable Taker victories for another twenty years, then be my guest. You got Taker going against the face of the company and if he wins a match against Lesnar is not going to top it. Especially not from an emotional standpoint. Taker vs Lesnar is not going to draw just because Lesnar was a big deal in MMA. MMA fans do not give a shit about wrestling. The outcome of a match against Lesnar is predictable. Cena, not so much.

[GillbergReturns]

[quote=Elijah89;14085530]

Originally Posted by GillbergReturns

Cena is even a bigger threat than Lesnar. You guys honestly think that Brock is going to beat The Undertaker? You guys would be more nervous watching a match between The Undertaker and John Cena. They would not consider handing the streak to someone who is not going to be there for the long haul. But if you guys want to get excited about predictable Taker victories for another twenty years, then be my guest. You got Taker going against the face of the company and if he wins a match against Lesnar is not going to top it. Especially not from an emotional standpoint. Taker vs Lesnar is not going to draw just because Lesnar was a big deal in MMA. MMA fans do not give a shit about wrestling. The outcome of a match against Lesnar is predictable. Cena, not so much.

The question is will Taker v Lesnar make money, because WWE is perfectly fine with Taker retiring undefeated.

[Elijah89]

[quote=The Hardcore Show;14085218]

Originally Posted by Elijah89

First off ff Cena continues what he's doing now until he retires the guy is going to be booed at his own HOF induction. Plus its not just the Attitude Era fans that hate him I started watching WWE in 1993 right at the beginning of the New Generation era and I have never seen a character as unlikable as John Cena. Nothing he does makes you want to root for him and unless you think he's trolling people and really get off on that.

Plus like I have said John Cena is not playing a heel EVER. The only megastar that turn heel was Austin and that was his decision. History has shown that when you reach the level John Cena has reach you don't turn heel in WWE unless you force it or the company's very existence depends on it and right now nether of those options look like they will ever be on the table and that is the whole appeal in seeing Undertaker vs John Cena at Wrestlemania.

You guys booing Cena at his HOF induction is going to make all you then GROWN ASS MEN look rediculous. You guys not rooting for Cena is small potatoes anyway, I am just looking at the big picture. I guess me and the rest of the MAJORITY have a different point of view on John Cena while the MINORITY have their usual adolescent like reasons for hating him. And you are right, Cena has reached a certain level in which a major change in ideals seems unlikely. But this is a different time period, the WWE and John Cena are not stupid, they will know what to do when the time comes to figure out a way for John Cena to extend his career. John Cena is the first HOMEGROWN TALENT to become face of the WWE (Hogan and Austin were developed elsewhere, and Bruno was Mcmahon Sr.'s project, Rock was homegrown too but Austin was the face of the company during their time. That being said, Rock has done a great job in Hollywood and is showing the love that he has for the business that made him and I appreciate that. I hope he becomes one of the biggest movie stars of all time.), they are not going to screw him up.

[Elijah89]

[quote=GillbergReturns;14086106]

Originally Posted by Elijah89

The question is will Taker v Lesnar make money, because WWE is perfectly fine with Taker retiring undefeated.

Taker retiring undefeated does not seem like something Mcmahon would. It's just not Vince like. You can't make anymore money off the streak after Taker retires anyway, so just end it. Are you guys gonna keep getting excited every time he wins at Wrestlemania because it is getting tired now.

You guys can't deny that a Taker loss is bigger than another win at this point. Which sounds more fun to talk about: "Man, that is so cool that Taker went 23-0 at WM" "Man, were you there when Taker finally lost at Wrestlemania?". I don't know why I just asked that question on Wrestlingforum.com when I know damn well what the answer is gonna be. But maybe there is at least one person......

[A$AP]

I'll be honest, you're wrong.

[The Hardcore Show]

[quote=Elijah89;14086650]

Originally Posted by The Hardcore Show

You guys booing Cena at his HOF induction is going to make all you then GROWN ASS MEN look rediculous. You guys not rooting for Cena is small potatoes anyway, I am just looking at the big picture. I guess me and the rest of the MAJORITY have a different point of view on John Cena while the MINORITY have their usual adolescent like reasons for hating him. And you are right, Cena has reached a certain level in which a major change in ideals seems unlikely. But this is a different time period, the WWE and John Cena are not stupid, they will know what to do when the time comes to figure out a way for John Cena to extend his career. John Cena is the first HOMEGROWN TALENT to become face of the WWE (Hogan and Austin were developed elsewhere, and Bruno was Mcmahon Sr.'s project, Rock was homegrown too but Austin was the face of the company during their time. That being said, Rock has done a great job in Hollywood and is showing the love that he has for the business that made him and I appreciate that. I hope he becomes one of the biggest movie stars of all time.), they are not going to screw him up.

Different point of view? Most of the hate on Cena is that he's not going to change he just does the same things year after year since he returned from his neck injury in 2008. I know John Cena is better that what he shows each week but for whatever reason very little about him has evolve in about 5-6 years now. That's not how the entertainment business works you can't just keep doing the same things every year and keep interest up but Vince is going to try that with John Cena.

[Elijah89]

[quote=The Hardcore Show;14087010]

Originally Posted by Elijah89

Different point of view? Most of the hate on Cena is that he's not going to change he just does the same things year after year since he returned from his neck injury in 2008. I know John Cena is better that what he shows each week but for whatever reason very little about him has evolve in about 5-6 years now. That's not how the entertainment business works you can't just keep doing the same things every year and keep interest up but Vince is going to try that with John Cena.

There is also something in the entertainment business called stability. Just how often should John Cena or anyone else change their character? Should wrestlers alternate between face and heel every year? I see where you are coming from, but the reason Vince is the last promoter standing is the fact that he has always been a long term thinking guy. If Cena was a failure, Vince would have given up or did something with his character a long time ago. The man has been successful in wrestlin since the mid 80's, he knows what he is doing. I'm prepared for the "he is now old and senile" comments.

I can understand why some older fans would "hate" John Cena. You guys are not used to long time protagonists, but many television producers would love to be in the position that Vince is in. I am still entertained.

[The Hardcore Show]

[quote=Elijah89;14087306]

Originally Posted by The Hardcore Show

There is also something in the entertainment business called stability. Just how often should John Cena or anyone else change their character? Should wrestlers alternate between face and heel every year? I see where you are coming from, but the reason Vince is the last promoter standing is the fact that he has always been a long term thinking guy. If Cena was a failure, Vince would have given up or did something with his character a long time ago. The man has been successful in wrestlin since the mid 80's, he knows what he is doing. I'm prepared for the "he is now old and senile" comments.

I can understand why some older fans would "hate" John Cena. You guys are not used to long time protagonists, but many television producers would love to be in the position that Vince is in. I am still entertained.

Their characters should not change but the stories should if you want some one like John Cena to have a 10-12 year run as a the main protagonist of a show. Like I said he is the main good guy of a show but outside of the beating Brock Lesnar gave him last year you just can't root for him because he's the franchise but yet is the underdog. Plus after he beats Rock & CM Punk this year you can strongly say that he's the only big name star to not really have a true rival as he is not just beaten but run through Edge, Randy Orton, Batista, Triple H, Shawn Michaels, Chris Jericho, Nexus, The Shield.

[Elijah89]

[quote=The Hardcore Show;14088106]

Originally Posted by Elijah89

Their characters should not change but the stories should if you want some one like John Cena to have a 10-12 year run as a the main protagonist of a show. Like I said he is the main good guy of a show but outside of the beating Brock Lesnar gave him last year you just can't root for him because he's the franchise but yet is the underdog. Plus after he beats Rock & CM Punk this year you can strongly say that he's the only big name star to not really have a true rival as he is not just beaten but run through Edge, Randy Orton, Batista, Triple H, Shawn Michaels, Chris Jericho, Nexus, The Shield.

I would argue that Edge was the one true rival of Cena during his time in the WWE. CM Punk is close to being what Edge was to Cena. Plus Cena did not necessarily run through those guys that you mentioned. Being the main guy, of course he would win those rivalries in the end. His rivalry with guys like Edge, Orton, Batista etc.. were feuds that were pretty even but they ended with good triumphing over evil as it should. Hell, even he and CM Punk have unfinished business. Don't be surprised if their feud ends with a Cena victory. Unlike Hogan and Austin, Cena is unfortunately in an era in which fans love to tear down the fourth wall and overanalyze things.

[The Beast Incarnate]

NAH. I know Rock has Austin as his main foil (well, the other way around) , but in this generation they're going to make The Rock seem as if he's been Cena's ultimate rival once Cena-Rock have their trilogy that ends at Wrestlemania XXX.

After tomorrow night I just can't wait for Mania to come TBH, as the build is going to be pretty bad.