Nobody said that it's needs to be a normal wrestling match, but it also doesn't need to be a brawl, that's wrestling, you're not working a years of long term booking unless it's the same guys, now with HHH out of the picture, you got a different opponent, an opponent that can be better than HHH, more effective than him with a bigger chance to beat and match Taker's style, I'm not talking about Rock or Brock or any specific person. Just the context, from what you said, HHH and HBK are the best of all time and because Taker beat them in that type of match, nobody else can do it. Let's take this for example, because we're mostly talking in the borders of kayfabe land here, Chael Sonnen took arguably the GOAT in MMA Anderson Silva to the limit like nobody did before him, just killing him for 4 and half rounds, in a desperate move Silva was able to win the fight via Submission, now if another fighter, with different style and better skills, say Jon Jones, goes in and beat Silva in 2 rounds, does that mean that Silva was unbeatable because he fought one person for 4 rounds? no. Just means that he fought different styles and different caliber of opponent. Same thing with wrestling if you want the story to be fresh and exciting and not the same brawl every year with the predictable nearfalls and kickouts, nobody is more credible than The Rock today, a guy who beat Cena clean after 8 years. Don't get me wrong, I can get your view on this subject and personally I would much rather watch Rock/Brock than Rock/Taker, but that doesn't mean Taker suddenly became a repetitive one style guy. You're not giving these workers enough credit for their tremendous mind and ability to lay out a match IMO.
It's not about the opponents/previous opponents being the GOAT or anything even remotely close to that. It's about how much further things have to be taken every year in order to get Taker to stay down. It's character based. It's all character based because the character of the opponent is linked to their credibility. HBK is a performer/wrestler etc etc. He tried to wrestle Taker twice and failed. HHH is a fighter/brawler. He tried it his way and failed twice. Both HHH and HBK are 2 of the best in their respective fields not to mention their legend and all their accolades. If Shawn Michaels can't beat The Undertaker at Wrestlemania in a wrestling match, The Rock/Cena/Brock sure as hell won't be able to do it. If Triple H can't beat The Undertaker at Wrestlemania in a brutal fight, well, he may have failed but to your point, that leaves the door open for somebody else to come along and try their hand at being even more brutal than HHH was willing to be in order to get the job done. Enter Brock Lesnar. The common thread between the HHH/HBK/Taker story arc was respect. The closing image on them as brothers in arms is a powerful one. Brock Lesnar doesn't have that same respect. HHH is ruthless but even he showed signs of mercy in both matches. Brock Lesnar won't. He's he perfect opponent.
It's also not about Taker or anybody else becoming a one style guy. The evolution of the streak matches is all you have to look at. I don't see how you can say that reverting back to a less brutal type of match makes sense tbh. It doesn't. Rock beating Cena gives him credibility, that along with the fact that he's The Rock. But streak matches aren't just any matches. You have to have that element of believability that the opponent has the tools to end the streak and can then go on and end it. It would be fine for them to continue the less brutal type of match had 27 and 28 not gone down the way they did. But after those matches the message is clear. You must literally KILL the Undertaker to beat him at Wrestlemania. Not outwrestle him. Not outsmart him. Not out-entertain him. Not any of that because he simply will not die unless somebody ends up pulling the trigger for him. That's the story of the streak matches now. To change that would be to undo all the tremendous work of the last 4 years and to put quite the dent in one of the best story arcs WWE has probably ever constructed. For that reason, Brock/Taker is the way to go with Cena/Taker at Mania 30. Rock isn't even a part of the equation. Unless he's willing to change from his current legend/icon/entertainer persona into a vicious merciless fighter, something that he's never been btw, then it won't and can't work.
"You have only one thing left and it's the streak's and When it dies, you die"
"and if i can't end it, then i'll die trying"
Triple H became the measuring stick, he was thought of as the man who was cold and vicious enough to end the streak.
When Triple H accepted the rematch he knew he'd have to end the career of the Undertaker to defeat him, something he wasn't willing to do the year prior.
Triple H showed compassion and it cost him once, that wasn't gonna happen a second time.
Taker barely scrapped by Triple H at WM 27, only to come back stronger than ever and soundly defeat him.
Taker's next opponent better come with what Triple H had and more.
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What Starbuck is saying about Lesnar fitting into the story after HHH and HBK makes complete sense to the brutality level that has been raised in Undertaker's last few WrestleMania matches. With Lesnar physically dominating Shawn and Hunter they may call in the reinforcements (aka The Undertaker) to handle the beast.
What I don't see is how Cena is more of a fighter than The Rock. Rock has shown in the past that he can brawl with the best of them - Austin, HHH, Foley, etc. He can be brutal as evidence shows in the "I Quit" match with Mankind. Rock can bring that kick ass edge if he needed to. A feud with Undertaker could and I think it would prompt Rock to change his attitude to be more serious and aggressive because now his character wants more than anything to prove that he is the GOAT. The intensity Rock brought in the promos with Cena looked like he wanted to chop Cena's head off at times. He can bring that same intensity to the obstacle that is The Streak.
btw, I'd take Rock, Cena, or Lesnar vs. Undertaker. I'm sure each option would be a fantastic main event for a WrestleMania.
When the hell has Cena ever been a merciless fighter? You're confusing me with this stance on Cena. When I look at Cena and his matches, I never think "Fighter/brawler".
I'm talking about Taker/Cena at Mania 30 when the chances of Cena being a legitimate heel are at their highest. Heel John Cena in 2014 is going to be quite the monster. I'd actually wager that Taker/Cena is a bigger match than Taker/Rock without Cena being heel. Throw that into the mix and it's game, set, match.
When you think of Cena you don't think of a 'wrestler' either though lol. He's much closer associated to being a brawler and a grafter than anything else. He's also renowned for taking some serious beatings and while perhaps not on the scale of others, he's been in quite the number of WWE fights in his career.
We don't know what it is yet or what it will look like but I think we all know that it's going to be the biggest thing to hit the WWE in years. There's going to be quite the difference in Cena dishing out a beating as a face where he has all these morals and slogans to live by compared to HEEL CENA which could consist of anything. That's the game changer. Brock is a given. Heel Cena is question mark. Rock is basically a no go.
EDIT - I don't think I'm getting my point across as well as I want to lol. Hopefully you can take something from what I'm trying to say though. In a nuthsell, Rock/Taker is bad and Brock/Taker or Cena/Taker is good. There lol.
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Re: Official The Rock WWE Championship Discussion
Starbuck is right.
As I said a couple pages back, even if Rock were willing to go all out and return to his asshole Corporate Rock self who's willing to mercilessly bludgeon a guy with a chair for fifteen minutes like 13-1/2 years ago, neither WWE nor he will want him to go there. He's the ultimate special attraction, the ultimate celebrity, quite plainly, who bridges the worlds of pro wrestling and Hollywood. He's as much the personification of the impact on pop culture pro wrestling strongly helped to make as anyone who's ever existed, and now he's the boomerang megastar whose pop culture accolades are being brought back to WWE to cross-pollinate.
He's not going to go heel the way Cena almost undoubtedly one day will. He's not going to be around to make a heel turn work. Furthermore, turning him heel would be a public relations snafu. He's the perfect ambassador to the entertainment world for WWE at this stage. He's too great a legend to be turned, and discounting that point, he's simply not well-suited to some kind of brawl with The Undertaker.
Rock's Rock Bottom or People's Elbow against Undertaker following the last four Wrestlemanias? No. That's just insulting the viewers' intelligence. Even with Cena, it was largely the element of surprise following Cena's act of hubris that was his undoing. It was the perfect booking for that finish because the Rock Bottom would, you would think, be utilized to knock someone's wind out of them as much as anything else. As such, it was the perfect finisher to catch the self-distracted Cena off guard and with which to get the one, two, three pin.
A Streak match with Undertaker will be entirely different. It's obvious, based on where they have gone with him recently, that Lesnar is the ideal opponent. In short, WWE needs someone in there who will be a threat to Undertaker. For a combination of factors, Rock isn't that guy. He can cut all the promos he wants to about ripping out guys' throats. Lesnar acts like he would have no remorse about doing just that when he's in the middle of a fight.
And let's also be perfectly frank about Rock/Cena as a match. It was good. But it was also a spectacle match, not a match that was intended to blow you away with verisimilitude. When Rock locked in the Sharpshooter and Cena locked in the STF, no one seriously believed anyone was going to tap out. It wasn't like Undertaker snatching Triple H into Hell's Gate at Wrestlemania XXVII or Wrestlemania XXVIII. The Sharpshooter and STF spots were intended to depict the Greek gods' respective strength and endurance. It was meta, as meta and as symbolic as Ultimate Warrior and Hulk Hogan pushing each other down to the mat out of a couple of lock-ups. Which Rock/Cena even emulated at its beginning. That was the kind of match it was. And that is what Rock will, in his present constitution, be best at delivering. I'm sure there will be a spot in any Rock/Punk match in which Punk narrowly survives the Sharpshooter and Rock just barely holds on against the Anaconda Vice.
When Taker latched onto Triple H at Wrestlemanias XXVII and XXVIII, it wasn't atmospheric, and it certainly wasn't done so that both men would look great. It was done with ferocity, to create a genuine sense that one man was on the verge of going unconscious from the pain and pressure applied by a man who was simultaneously wearing himself out, finishing off whatever strength he still possessed, in endeavoring to vanquish his opponent.
WWE has the perfect man to bring that sense of gritty realism to the Streak right now in Brock Lesnar. It's a no-brainer, and everything they've done with making it evident that Lesnar > Triple H, Lesnar's interactions with Triple H and Shawn Michaels, signposts that Lesnar/Undertaker is on deck.
As for Cena, he's 35 years old and is still the standard-bearer of the product, whatever our feelings for him. You have to look at these men at where they are in life, where they are in their careers. Rock a dozen, even six or seven years ago might have easily been capable of delivering the kind of match against Undertaker at Wrestlemania that would conceivably fit alongside the running episodic narrative WWE's delivered on with the Streak these past 3-1/2 years, but he's no longer fit for that role. There's many things you can do with him but building him up as a sadistic monster or realistic fighter (again, Michaels wrestled Undertaker but that was then--the Streak narrative has pushed forward quite dramatically since) against The Undertaker for the Streak is not one of them.
Then there's the point I first brought up which is that, a few hilarious promos from Rock aside, these two guys never really did have much in the way of chemistry in or out of the ring. You can say that Lesnar/Undertaker inside the Hell in a Cell ten years ago wasn't exactly some kind of fabulous wrestling match, but that sense of dread and almost downright horror it engendered is almost perfectly ideal for the Streak at this point.
Cena can either turn heel before facing Undertaker or slowly find himself turning in the match itself or a dozen different variations of the storyline. Many fans of this era have seen Cena fight through the Elimination Chamber, they've seen him battle the monsters like Umaga, they've seen him tortured by a psychopathic Randy Orton and still survive without quitting. Cena is still a reasonably pliable entity. He can wrestle the spectacle match with The Rock or you can send him into the lion's den against Brock Lesnar and watch as his head is caved in like a watermelon.
Cena can choke a man out with a ring rope, and even in the post-PG time period he's been allowed to knock a man in the head with a chain to turn the tables. As silly as it sort of was, he was permitted to wrap duct tape around Batista's ankles to win a Last Man Standing match. I can't see Rock being given the kind of latitude Cena is permitted, because, for one thing, Rock is the special attraction. As little character development as Cena's had since Extreme Rules, it was the character development he had at his back that drove him to use the chain against Lesnar. The audience is conditioned to seeing Cena placed in dramatic situations in a continuous manner. Thus his defeating The Big Show with a bunch of friendly babyfaces at No Way Out is okayed. Rock doesn't have that luxury. He doesn't work B pay-per-views or have filler feuds. It's just two entirely different cases.
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