Official The Rock vs. CM Punk Discussion Thread - Page 40 - Wrestling Forum : WWE, TNA, Debate League, Wrestling Videos, Women of Wrestling Forums

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Old 08-22-2012, 11:27 PM   #391 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official The Rock WWE Championship Discussion

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Originally Posted by #PushKofiKingston View Post
He won't be holding it long and The Rock being on a PPV automatically overshadows the champions so you might as well stick the title on him so it can get some spotlight.
True and if they put the belt on him at Rumble and have him defend at EC then that can maybe help buys on EC while also keeping the belt on him til Mania which ofc would be the ME.
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Old 08-22-2012, 11:58 PM   #392 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official The Rock WWE Championship Discussion

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Originally Posted by The-Rock-Says View Post
Tyrese Gibson Vs The Rock - WM 29 - Gazillion buys

http://www.mobli.com/tyrese/14519119...cal?referer=tw
Tyrese is that dude. Damn, can't wait for this movie.



I bet Rock had used Tyrese's line and said sexy legs baby girl, what time do they open? y
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Old 08-23-2012, 02:27 AM   #393 (permalink)
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Default Re: Rock will elevate the WWE title?

The only thing I want to see less than Rock/Lesnar is Rock/Undertaker. At least with Brock, Rock actually had a damned good match with him ten years ago, while Rock and Undertaker never matched up well with one another, never had a decent, much less memorable feud or program with one another and seem to be a couple of characters that are just better off not entering one another's orbits. These problems are only magnified and exacerbated by their respective statuses today, with Undertaker and his sanctified Streak on the one hand and Rock and his movie star celebrity on the other.

Triple H just tried to fucking murder The Undertaker at consecutive Wrestlemanias. And Triple H could do that because of who he is and what character he boasts coming into the ring. Rock isn't going to revert to his Corporate Rock asshole heel self from a decade and a half ago and start bashing Taker with a chair like he did with Mick Foley once upon a time. He's a completely different Rock, nobody would want to see that, nobody wants to see him turned heel (to what point?), none of it benefits WWE aside from whatever buys they may collect because it's a Big Match. But not every possible Big Match is the correct Big Match.

That's why Lesnar vs. Undertaker makes so much more sense. Triple H was a killer in his matches with Taker at WM27 and WM28. Now that killer was just taken down by an eviler, hungrier, more vicious, more ruthless and sadistic monstrous killer in Lesnar. The Streak at this point requires someone who's willing to attempt to murder Taker to break it. Even John Cena at WM30 could bring that to the table after all the years of battling the Umagas, Sheamuses, Lesnars, et. al., fighting in Last Man Standing matches, Elimination Chamber matches, etceteras. Cena bridges the gap between the Triple H model and The Rock model but he's at least believable in that role, and best of all he's in a different place in his career and we don't know what he'd look like, exactly, as either a heel or at worst a heavily-booed "tweener" (which is what he'd be in any Streak storyline by de facto).

Rock can't really play that role anymore. He can still bring a certain edge to his character and he can even be booed by a segment of Cena diehards throughout the audience but he can't--won't be allowed to--return to that territory.

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Originally Posted by antdvda View Post
Do you think that Rock holding the title (even its just for a month) will help elevate the importance of the belt?

I think it will. He doesn't have to bury a bunch of guys but the image of him winning the belt and walking out with it for a few week should be something special. Even if he does a couple large media appearances with the belt should really help.

Thoughts?
I think it's unquestionable that Rock either pursuing the championship or eventually wearing it as champion will certainly elevate the championship. This is actually a role which he can fill quite capably and in so doing he can actually elevate something, namely the WWE Championship. As was said by SharpshooterSmith, simply having Rock/Cena II for the WWE Championship ensures that the WWE Championship match will headline Wrestlemania as it logically should.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SharpshooterSmith View Post
He may elevate it for a bit. Hell, if nothing else, at least we know that if Rock has it and is putting it on the line against Cena, the WWE Championship will actually be defended in the main event of WrestleMania. However, after Cena defeats Rock and takes the title, the WWE Championship will go back to meaning absolutely nothing as Cena buries the entire roster defending it.
Don't necessarily agree with the last bit. Theoretically speaking, if Cena were to turn heel, a long reign as a heel overlord of WWE would do the WWE Championship, the John Cena character and the WWE at large a world of good. Of course, even as a babyface he can maintain the status quo... which is not what most of us want but it wouldn't exactly sink WWE, it seems.

Anyway, WM29 is probably going to be, to one extent or another, used to set up WM30... Kind of like how WM27 was used to set up WM28. So while it'll probably be more strictly "predictable" than, say, WM28 (though, really, did anyone think Sheamus, Undertaker or Punk weren't going to win?), much of it will be used as the jumpstart for WM30's big angles (Cena being set up to challenge the Streak, Punk's elevation as a true top tier player after WM29's program, doubtless the snowballing of certain rising stars toward WM30, etceteras).
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Old 08-23-2012, 04:00 AM   #394 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official The Rock WWE Championship Discussion

I agree with GillbergReturns about the predictability, there's no selling point in Rock/Cena and Lesnar/Taker, we know what's happening, and we get the same main event we saw last year when you already gave the audience exactly what they wanted out of it. As for the Lesnar and Taker style of match, Taker's best WM performance was HBK at WM25, that match was pure work, not endless chair shots or brawling. That's the opportunity to get back from the limited style he was working with HHH, same thing with Lesnar, his match with HHH got a lot of negative because of the style, personally I loved it, but I can see why people might not like it. Some think that because they worked two matches out of 20 in that context, it's suddenly the way it is forever, it's not(And I'm talking mostly Taker here because with Brock it's more a character choice). The point is, there's no "fitting" to wrestle them like some people think about Rock, you adapts the style of the specific match to fit the performance. Nobody wants to see Taker in another HHH style match or Lesnar trying to break someone's arm for 20 minutes. A simple clash of bulls and athleticism like Rock/Brock will bring to the table is the way to go and will be fresh for the viewers who think Lesnar can only punch and hold, they don't know the real Brock Lesnar. Do I want to see Rock suddenly working a chairs brawl? no. He can do it? absolutely, nobody is going to work that style again with Taker and Lesnar because it's basically the same match.

As of right now, Rock/Cena is the most likely from the way they booked Rock for the belt at Royal Rumble, but nothing is close to final and I hope that Rock will push to work with Lesnar and we get something fresh and special and not one of the most wasted and predictable WMs of all time.

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Old 08-23-2012, 09:50 AM   #395 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official The Rock WWE Championship Discussion

I think Rock and Brock could work, I mean honestly if Cena can do it then so can Rock IMO but im 100% certain were getting Brock/Taker, Rock is either facing Cena or Punk or even both.
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Old 08-23-2012, 10:12 AM   #396 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official The Rock WWE Championship Discussion

I want Brock vs Rock for the title at Mania. Just because they're the two biggest names in the company.

Only problem with this scenario is that there's no opponenet for Taker other than Cena and Punk. Punk will probably face HHH and nobody would buy him beating Taker anyway.

But with Cena, there may have been a time where he would have been credible enough to end the streak in peoples mind back when he was undefeated at Mania. But since then he lost three out of his last five main events at Mania. Again nobody would except him to end the streak which makes the whole match pointless.

So I'm afraid we get Brock and Taker and Cena vs Rock again, with the wrong guy in both cases going over.
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Old 08-23-2012, 10:41 AM   #397 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official The Rock WWE Championship Discussion

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I want Brock vs Rock for the title at Mania. Just because they're the two biggest names in the company.

Only problem with this scenario is that there's no opponenet for Taker other than Cena and Punk. Punk will probably face HHH and nobody would buy him beating Taker anyway.

But with Cena, there may have been a time where he would have been credible enough to end the streak in peoples mind back when he was undefeated at Mania. But since then he lost three out of his last five main events at Mania. Again nobody would except him to end the streak which makes the whole match pointless.

So I'm afraid we get Brock and Taker and Cena vs Rock again, with the wrong guy in both cases going over.
I think they save Taker vs Cena for 30. I think we're either getting Cena vs Rock II at Rumble or WM29 which ever happens Punk gets the other. Personally I want Punk to hold the belt til Rumble but if that doesn't happen I'd like to see Cena get the belt now lose it to Rock at Rumble with Punk winning the rumble.
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Old 08-23-2012, 10:43 AM   #398 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official The Rock WWE Championship Discussion

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Originally Posted by murder View Post
I want Brock vs Rock for the title at Mania. Just because they're the two biggest names in the company.

Only problem with this scenario is that there's no opponenet for Taker other than Cena and Punk. Punk will probably face HHH and nobody would buy him beating Taker anyway.

But with Cena, there may have been a time where he would have been credible enough to end the streak in peoples mind back when he was undefeated at Mania. But since then he lost three out of his last five main events at Mania. Again nobody would except him to end the streak which makes the whole match pointless.

So I'm afraid we get Brock and Taker and Cena vs Rock again, with the wrong guy in both cases going over.
Actually, if anyone can make fans believe the streak is beatable, it's Cena. Him losing 3 Mania matches is irrelevant, and he still has one of the stronger lengthy WM records.
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Old 08-23-2012, 11:31 AM   #399 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official The Rock WWE Championship Discussion

Personally at this point, I would like to see John Cena win the belt from Punk later in the year (not at Night of Champions...I think Punk needs that win to prolong this feud). Perhaps Cena can win it at Hell in a Cell or Survivor Series though. I'd like John Cena to then hold the belt until the Rumble, setting up Rock/Cena II in January, putting Rock/Punk on tap for WM29 with the title on the line.

My biggest concern about this approach though, is that it involved Rock going over Cena again. Believe me, Vince wants to make sure Cena gets that win back against Rock from WM28, and I just can't see Rock going 2-0 over Cena...the second time being for the title no less.

I unfortunately think that it will be Punk/Rock at the Rumble, setting up for Rock/Cena II at WM29 for the title. Cena will go over, making his win even bigger because it's for the belt this time. I really don't have much interest in seeing Rock/Cena at Mania for a second time, even if it is for the belt. The only saving grace would be if Cena turned heel on Rock, but even then I don't think the impact is as great if it were to happen at WM28...coming out of the "embrace the hate" angle leading up to the match.
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Old 08-23-2012, 01:15 PM   #400 (permalink)
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Default Re: Rock will elevate the WWE title?

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Originally Posted by DesolationRow View Post
The only thing I want to see less than Rock/Lesnar is Rock/Undertaker. At least with Brock, Rock actually had a damned good match with him ten years ago, while Rock and Undertaker never matched up well with one another, never had a decent, much less memorable feud or program with one another and seem to be a couple of characters that are just better off not entering one another's orbits. These problems are only magnified and exacerbated by their respective statuses today, with Undertaker and his sanctified Streak on the one hand and Rock and his movie star celebrity on the other.

Triple H just tried to fucking murder The Undertaker at consecutive Wrestlemanias. And Triple H could do that because of who he is and what character he boasts coming into the ring. Rock isn't going to revert to his Corporate Rock asshole heel self from a decade and a half ago and start bashing Taker with a chair like he did with Mick Foley once upon a time. He's a completely different Rock, nobody would want to see that, nobody wants to see him turned heel (to what point?), none of it benefits WWE aside from whatever buys they may collect because it's a Big Match. But not every possible Big Match is the correct Big Match.

That's why Lesnar vs. Undertaker makes so much more sense. Triple H was a killer in his matches with Taker at WM27 and WM28. Now that killer was just taken down by an eviler, hungrier, more vicious, more ruthless and sadistic monstrous killer in Lesnar. The Streak at this point requires someone who's willing to attempt to murder Taker to break it. Even John Cena at WM30 could bring that to the table after all the years of battling the Umagas, Sheamuses, Lesnars, et. al., fighting in Last Man Standing matches, Elimination Chamber matches, etceteras. Cena bridges the gap between the Triple H model and The Rock model but he's at least believable in that role, and best of all he's in a different place in his career and we don't know what he'd look like, exactly, as either a heel or at worst a heavily-booed "tweener" (which is what he'd be in any Streak storyline by de facto).

Rock can't really play that role anymore. He can still bring a certain edge to his character and he can even be booed by a segment of Cena diehards throughout the audience but he can't--won't be allowed to--return to that territory.



I think it's unquestionable that Rock either pursuing the championship or eventually wearing it as champion will certainly elevate the championship. This is actually a role which he can fill quite capably and in so doing he can actually elevate something, namely the WWE Championship. As was said by SharpshooterSmith, simply having Rock/Cena II for the WWE Championship ensures that the WWE Championship match will headline Wrestlemania as it logically should.



Don't necessarily agree with the last bit. Theoretically speaking, if Cena were to turn heel, a long reign as a heel overlord of WWE would do the WWE Championship, the John Cena character and the WWE at large a world of good. Of course, even as a babyface he can maintain the status quo... which is not what most of us want but it wouldn't exactly sink WWE, it seems.

Anyway, WM29 is probably going to be, to one extent or another, used to set up WM30... Kind of like how WM27 was used to set up WM28. So while it'll probably be more strictly "predictable" than, say, WM28 (though, really, did anyone think Sheamus, Undertaker or Punk weren't going to win?), much of it will be used as the jumpstart for WM30's big angles (Cena being set up to challenge the Streak, Punk's elevation as a true top tier player after WM29's program, doubtless the snowballing of certain rising stars toward WM30, etceteras).
Rock and Taker have never even been booked to have a meaningful feud between each other. The only high profile 1-1 match they had was Rock v Taker at King of the Ring 99 and that was just a filler match in between Owen dying on the previous PPV and Austin winning the belt the day after King of the Ring.

I wonder why that didn't feel special or memorable?

The selling point of a Taker Rock Wrestlemania match would be you'd have both guys trying to cement their legacy as the greatest Wrestlemania performer of all time. As big as 20-0 is you can make a legitimate argument that Rock's wrestlemania history is better. The guy has had dream feuds and victories over Austin, Hogan, and Cena. The faces of the era. The streak is a big list of average wrestlers and B+ stars.

Last edited by GillbergReturns : 08-23-2012 at 01:30 PM.
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