Pulling my hair out until Game of Thrones season four
Join Date: Nov 2004
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Re: Official The Rock WWE Championship Discussion
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Don't WWE always say in Championship matches, the Title can only change hands via pinfall or submission? Obviously a KO win a normal match is a regular win, just like a DQ win or a countout win is, but if you win by KO in a Title match, do you get the Title?
When they say that, what they mean is that you can't win the title via DQ or countout. They don't mention KO's because NO main eventer, hell no one but pure jobbers lose by KO, ever, it's just not a way that they end matches because it's anti-climactic, plus getting KO'd makes you look weak. Theoretically, if that happened, they would have to give him the title. How do you keep the title if you've been beaten into unconsciousness? Getting knocked out would become a heel cliché to scrape by with the belt.
Besides, I don't think it matters because in a HIAC, they probably just wouldn't count a KO and continue it until there was a pin or submission.
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Last edited by Tyrion Lannister : 10-16-2012 at 10:18 AM.
When they say that, what they mean is that you can't win via DQ or countout. They don't mention KO's because NO main eventer loses by KO, ever, it's just not a way that they end matches because it's anti-climactic. Theoretically, if that happened, they would have to give him the title. How do you keep the title if you've been beaten into unconsciousness? Getting knocked out would become a heel cliché to win matches.
Besides, I don't think it matters because in a HIAC, they probably just wouldn't count a KO and continue it until there was a pin or submission.
I know what you;re saying, but they've been stating for years that the only way a Title can change hands is via pinfall or submission, I can see them exploiting that as a way to keep the belt on Punk, keep Ryback undefeated, and further portray Punk as a undeserving Champion who doesn't deserve respect.
Say Ryback knocks Punk out, ref stops the match, gives Ryback the Title, PPV ends, everybody goes home thinking Ryback is the Champion. The next night on Raw Punk comes out with Paul, WWE rule book in hand, they quote what WWE have been saying for YEARS "In Championship matches, the Title can only change hands by pinfall or submission" then Ryback is forced to reluctantly give Punk the belt back. It's literally win-win for them, Punk keeps the Title, Ryback stays undefeated, it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest to see this happen, especially considering it's never been done before, Vince is big on them kind of things.
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Last edited by DoubleDeckerBar : 10-16-2012 at 10:21 AM.
Then what the fuck are you keeping up with it for? If it doesn't matter who wins and it doesn't matter who loses, don't even bother.
It SHOULD matter to the fans. I don't want fucking Orton having a WWE title match with Sheamus 5 years from now, we need MORE STARS. And god dammit does Ryback ever suck, but at the very, VERY least, he's new. That's not a compliment and it's not saying anything, but it's something. This shit is like watching a television show where every season is 100% identical.
Well, it does matter to me who wins a match or loses but it's not the base for everything. As long as I'm entertained, I'm okay with results. Exhibit A: Cena vs Lesnar. I enjoyed the match even though the ending was horrible, but that doesn't take away from the match itself, just a little but doesn't ruin it entirely.
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Yeah, ok, sure he wasn't. He was only dropped because they couldn't get him over.
Wrong. I've been watching the entire year of 2004 recently and just passed by Orton's title reign. After beating Benoit and turning face, crowd went crazy for him every week leading up to Unforgiven. (and to make sure, I just went and checked the ratings for the episodes with him as champion and they were as good as before. So no, he didn't "kill ratings" either!) The reason he got dropped was because he was immature and had backstage problems. They even noted it on his DVD. Therefore, his push was not a failure because of what happened on-screen, but OFF-SCREEN. And if you try to use whatever took place AFTER Unforgiven as reason for his face run flopping, then all I have to say is: Unforgiven was a momentum killer that ruined any potential.
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Well, he deserves a random, nonsensical match, not a match that matters. Especially after he went all Jeff Hardy on them and got suspended a second time after everything they've given him.
Except he was given a random, nonsensical match even BEFORE his suspension. But to WWE's credit, they never dropped the ball with him despite his drug problems back in 2006 so kudos to them for that. They saw the star potential in him and knew he is a one-of-a-kind talent they have in their hands. Now it's time they fix their fuck-ups in this past year and start pushing him again. Outside of Cena, Orton is the only guy on the roster that has "STAR" written all over him so WWE are dumb to waste him away like they've been doing since the Mark Henry feud ended.
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No, it really won't be. It wasn't even that good the first time, and now they're both much older, and much less motivated to perform well given the fact that they have better pay days than everybody else put together.
I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt this time. Just hope The Rock gets in better ring shape so he can go for a few more minutes before he's gasping for air. And the first match is a classic, but hey, you can disagree and that's cool.
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Yeah, maybe I am looking deep into it. That's probably because I respect Taker's career more than you do and I want to see it end properly. There's nothing you can do to top the atmosphere of a match with Cena and there's no better end than to retire at WM 30 having beat the top guy, and he's not going out before 30. Taker understands the value of numbers I'm sure, marketing an Undertaker WrestleMania 30 match, especially the finale to his career is something, properly promoted they'll make a shitload of money on and so will he.
Fair enough, which is why I don't think they can go wrong with doing Taker/Lesnar at WM29 along with Rock/Cena II (with Cena TURNING HEEL to win, I don't want a simple "return victory" either) as the top draws. Then Taker/Cena can headline the huge milestone that is WM30 and Taker can retire there after having one of the most anticipated classic bouts with Cena. They have already proved their chemistry and ability to work together in 2003 (and 2004 for Deadman Taker) so I expect nothing less from them.
I know what you;re saying, but they've been stating for years that the only way a Title can change hands is via pinfall or submission
That's right but titles changed hands by KO in the past, for example HBK winning the European title after Bulldog passed out.
I really like your idea in general though. Ryback winning but Punk finding a loophole to keep the title. Only question is what this loophole could be.
The Outsiders once held on to the titles because a fired referee counted the pin. Maybe something like that.
Edit: On second thought, Rock once passed out in the Mandible Claw and Vince claimed that the title could not change hands by passing out. Thus creating a major continuity error to just 15 months earlier when said HBK/Bulldog match happened. So who knows what the official rules state?!
Lesnar interferes during the HIAC ME to save Punk and Punk/Brock brutally attack Ryback leading to his kayfabe injury
Lesnar/Punk/Heyman run roughshot over WWE
Survivor Series Team Heyman vs. Team Vince: Team Heyman wins with Punk/Brock as sole survivors
Punk starts program with Rock for the Rumble which sees another late Lesnar interference except this time Ryback returns and makes the save
Then Mania season approaches and we get Punk/Ryback for the title and Rock/Brock for the title.
What I described seems more like Punk/Rock and Ryback/Lesnar Mania feuds rather than Rock/Punk and Ryback/Lesnar.. Oh well, i'm trying though.
Lesnar interferes during the HIAC ME to save Punk and Punk/Brock brutally attack Ryback leading to his kayfabe injury
Lesnar/Punk/Heyman run roughshot over WWE
Survivor Series Team Heyman vs. Team Vince: Team Heyman wins with Punk/Brock as sole survivors
Punk starts program with Rock for the Rumble which sees another late Lesnar interference except this time Ryback returns and makes the save
Then Mania season approaches and we get Punk/Ryback for the title and Rock/Brock for the title.
What I described seems more like Punk/Rock and Ryback/Lesnar Mania feuds rather than Rock/Punk and Ryback/Lesnar.. Oh well, i'm trying though.
The plan is Rock/Punk for the Rumble but it can always change and I have no doubt that if it's Ryback/Punk one on one at HIAC, Ryback is going over. During this period a lot of things can change, Ryback got over huge. If he continues that run, they can change this match with one conversation, and Rock just getting "revenge" on Punk on RAW in a beatdown or something. Ryback as an undefeated champion against Rock would be a big match and it's definitely a consideration for them.
If Rock/Ryback happens, this can also be their "out" for Ryback's streak, because it obviously can't go on forever and like The GOAT himself said:
6:40
Nobody is losing any credibility when they're in the ring with The Rock. I'm sure that Rock will also bump for him and will make him look better than ever, like he did to all of his opponents his entire career.
If Rock/Ryback happens, this can also be their "out" for Ryback's streak, because it obviously can't go on forever and like The GOAT himself said:
6:40
Nobody is losing any credibility when they're in the ring with The Rock. I'm sure that Rock will also bump for him and will make him look better than ever, like he did to all of his opponents his entire career.
Ryback is not facing Rock, it's just not happening. Rock has made it clear he wants to face Punk, he probably has no idea who Ryback even is.
Ryback/Rock would suck ass, they would make Rock hold back on the promo's because he'd make Ryback look like shit, plus Ryback can't talk, so he'd never give any rebuttals excpet "Feed Me Rock" Plus they are trying to make Ryback the next big babyface, why put him in a match where the crowd will turn on him?
It's gonna be Punk vs. Rock, and thank fuck for that, if they let both guys perform to the top of their ability, it will be amazing.
I know you hate Punk, but even you have to see why Punk/Rock is a much smarter plan and will have MUCH better results.
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Last edited by DoubleDeckerBar : 10-16-2012 at 01:18 PM.
Official The Rock vs. CM Punk Discussion Thread
Re: Official The Rock WWE Championship Discussion
