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Old 11-28-2012, 01:10 PM   #111 (permalink)
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Default Re: 11/30 Smackdown, Main Event & SMS Spoilers

Fucking hell Bryan won a match?
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Old 11-28-2012, 03:44 PM   #112 (permalink)
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Default Re: 11/30 Smackdown, Main Event & SMS Spoilers

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Originally Posted by Choke2Death View Post
When did Punk lose to Bryan? I only remember a DQ finish and another match where both guys were pinning each other. I think they had a match right before Over the Limit that was placed in the 10 PM time and I remember that it lost viewers and caused an uproar in the ratings thread (). Don't know the finish, though. Might have been that match. And Orton loses A LOT more.

Lastly, Orton was in "superman mode" at times, specially when taking down the entire Nexus which is why he started getting hated on in forums. Don't know how you consider either of the Punk matches "superman mode", though. He was not attacked by a bunch of Nexus members and still overcame or anything like that and he was not put through a bunch of finishers that he kicked out of. It was just a regular match and a LMS one where he won after an even and fair fight. I can see the "superman" in some of the Christian matches, though. He kept kicking out of strong moves a lot, specially in the steel cage match.
I don't remember the Orton/Punk matches too well, and I was only using it in the context I see you using it in, but what makes a "superman" to you out of curiosity? I'll get to my view on it later, but is it kicking out of multiple finishers/being booked as invincible? Ironically enough the most "superman" Punk has been since his title run by that definition would be his NOC match against Cena, which he was a heel for (though it was pretty much negated in how Punk lost). Looking at his PPV run since his title run began, SVS against Del Rio there was nothing superman about it. TLC... forget how he got out of the cuffs, but if he didn't use his bare strength to rip them apart off his arms, there isn't anything superman about it. RR, once again, no. EC? He kicked out of the skull-crushing finale, but once again, no. WM was simply a competitive match against Jericho, but once again nothing superman. ER was a bit of a clusterfuck, but I don't remember the match or ending well enough to judge. OTL against Bryan certainly wasn't and Punk only barely won. The triple threat against Bryan and Kane at NWO, I don't remember the finish to, and MITB if anything Bryan just looked weak the way he lost, not that Punk looked like "superman".

That being said, I don't even believe Orton really has had "superman" moments at all... at least not off the top of my head, even with Christian (which I only brought up because of the context you were using "superman mode" in) but the same thing with Punk. At least not what I'd consider anyway. I can't think of any moments I'd put as "superman" outside of the possible TLC match last year, and I can't say for certain on that either.

If a face winning and overcoming odds is being in "superman mode", then every main face at one point or another has done that. I personally don't believe the whole "superman" shtick aside from in very rare cases, like getting beat down all match by two guys and then still winning it and no-selling the beating (*coughCenavsMizIquitcough*). That to me is pushing it too far, but otherwise "superman" is overused, hence why I pretty much always put it in quotes, as I just don't believe a lot of the time it's put on someone who deserves it. Punk hasn't been that much of an offender or anywhere near as bad as other top faces from across time like Hogan, Austin, Goldberg, Cena, Batista, Sheamus, etc. Hell Undertaker at Wrestlemania 27 is probably the best example of being a "superman" moment within the match(although the fact he couldn't get up kinda saves it from being that bad, but still...), though stuff like Cena no-selling a beating, even if the beating is not as bad is imo worse.

But yeah, Punk winning some competitive matches for a year doesn't mean he was in "superman" mode. Though Punk's character as a face was too identical to the closest person WWE has to Superman, Cena (and even for him, it's well over-exaggerated at times when he wins a match).

However, I won't argue that Orton has been... how would you put it? More "humanely" booked as face than Punk was as a face.
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Old 11-28-2012, 04:03 PM   #113 (permalink)
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Default Re: 11/30 Smackdown, Main Event & SMS Spoilers

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Originally Posted by The Sandrone View Post
I don't remember the Orton/Punk matches too well, and I was only using it in the context I see you using it in, but what makes a "superman" to you out of curiosity? I'll get to my view on it later, but is it kicking out of multiple finishers/being booked as invincible? Ironically enough the most "superman" Punk has been since his title run by that definition would be his NOC match against Cena, which he was a heel for (though it was pretty much negated in how Punk lost). Looking at his PPV run since his title run began, SVS against Del Rio there was nothing superman about it. TLC... forget how he got out of the cuffs, but if he didn't use his bare strength to rip them apart off his arms, there isn't anything superman about it. RR, once again, no. EC? He kicked out of the skull-crushing finale, but once again, no. WM was simply a competitive match against Jericho, but once again nothing superman. ER was a bit of a clusterfuck, but I don't remember the match or ending well enough to judge. OTL against Bryan certainly wasn't and Punk only barely won. The triple threat against Bryan and Kane at NWO, I don't remember the finish to, and MITB if anything Bryan just looked weak the way he lost, not that Punk looked like "superman".
Just gonna quote this part since that's where the arguing is. The "superman" word is used in the same context as being extremely dominant. Royal Rumble is a good example. Ziggler looked like a bitch since Punk beat him at least 4 times during the match, Extreme Rules was Jericho being made to look too weak while Punk only did one GTS IIRC. He even kicked out of a Codebreaker with chair! The worst offender is MITB to me, though. Bryan kept lashing out all the offense but Punk just escaped a loss every single time. He even took a LeBell Lock with a KENDO STICK and escaped the hold using his strength. The LeBell Lock is just a weaker booked Crossface and if we use the latter as an example, when Benoit used the hold (with the stick) on Tajiri in an ECW Rules match on Raw, Tajiri didn't hesitate to tap out for one second. It was over in an instant. One of the reasons I hate that MITB match.

And I see you mentioned Undertaker later in the post. With him, it's okay because that's part of his gimmick but I can't say the same for most others who are almost invincible.
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Old 11-28-2012, 04:24 PM   #114 (permalink)
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Default Re: 11/30 Smackdown, Main Event & SMS Spoilers

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Originally Posted by Choke2Death View Post
Just gonna quote this part since that's where the arguing is. The "superman" word is used in the same context as being extremely dominant. Royal Rumble is a good example. Ziggler looked like a bitch since Punk beat him at least 4 times during the match, Extreme Rules was Jericho being made to look too weak while Punk only did one GTS IIRC. He even kicked out of a Codebreaker with chair! The worst offender is MITB to me, though. Bryan kept lashing out all the offense but Punk just escaped a loss every single time. He even took a LeBell Lock with a KENDO STICK and escaped the hold using his strength. The LeBell Lock is just a weaker booked Crossface and if we use the latter as an example, when Benoit used the hold (with the stick) on Tajiri in an ECW Rules match on Raw, Tajiri didn't hesitate to tap out for one second. It was over in an instant. One of the reasons I hate that MITB match.

And I see you mentioned Undertaker later in the post. With him, it's okay because that's part of his gimmick but I can't say the same for most others who are almost invincible.
Superman for me would be sustaining a ton of damage (whether in a competitive fight or not) and not showing effects or taking a ton of punishment (and of course there are different views on what that could be) and still not losing. Being just dominant on it's own doesn't suit my view of it unless someone like Punk is dominant against... say... Mark Henry. So I don't consider that the case in the RR match with Ziggler, although that was a case of Ziggler look ridiculously weak. Same thing with Bryan at MITB as I don't think escaping the Lebell Lock with a kendo stick is THAT ridiculous (though of course I wouldn't put it as ordinary either) and in the case of Jericho at ER, that is pretty ridiculous what you mentioned. It reminds me of when Edge kicked out of the top rope codebreaker and I thought that was pretty silly, especially when a title wasn't on the line. But I can't comment since I don't remember the match well enough.

As far as the Benoit/Tajiri example, all I know about Tajiri is what I've seen in WWE, and he was a low mid-carder/jobber, so it's not really the best comparison (although I understand you made the comparison to compare the level of the moves, but there is also the level of the superstars in the moves that has to be thought about).
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Old 11-28-2012, 07:06 PM   #115 (permalink)
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Default Re: 11/30 Smackdown, Main Event & SMS Spoilers

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Fucking hell Bryan won a match?
That tag match playa!
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Old 11-28-2012, 07:10 PM   #116 (permalink)
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Default Re: 11/30 Smackdown, Main Event & SMS Spoilers

Sandow will be GOAT on the mic in like only 1 year.
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Old 11-28-2012, 07:10 PM   #117 (permalink)
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Default Re: 11/30 Smackdown, Main Event & SMS Spoilers

Well these tapings certainly don't look all that appealing. Not really much in the way of standout matches I'd go out of my way to see.
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Old 11-28-2012, 07:42 PM   #118 (permalink)
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Default Re: 11/30 Smackdown, Main Event & SMS Spoilers

Interested only on the Sandow segment and Daniel Bryan getting a win.
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Old 11-28-2012, 08:51 PM   #119 (permalink)
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Default Re: 11/30 Smackdown, Main Event & SMS Spoilers

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Old 11-28-2012, 09:06 PM   #120 (permalink)
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Default Re: 11/30 Smackdown, Main Event & SMS Spoilers

I'm posting this without actually seeing the spoilers yet...

OMGZ SANDOW WAS BURRIED WTF WWE YOU ARE TERRIBLE RUIN SANDOW HE IZ DA BEST EVA

edit: yeah so I was close enough
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