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Old 06-20-2012, 05:49 PM   #611 (permalink)
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Default Re: Damien Sandow Discussion

Why does anyone listen to Ocitron I may have Let's Go CENA in my signature, granted, but he has Kidd Hawkins Mcguillicutty and Slater. Otherwise known as the faction: Charismaless. All of the bores and the best of them Ziggler, isn't as good as Sandow on the mic.
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Old 06-20-2012, 05:51 PM   #612 (permalink)
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Default Re: Damien Sandow Discussion

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Originally Posted by Oxitron View Post
I'm not comparing, though.

At least I pay my dues to guys who at the least deserve it.
If they deserve it why don't they get anything?

That's a rhetorical question btw, the answer is they don't deserve it.
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Old 06-20-2012, 06:12 PM   #613 (permalink)
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Default Re: Damien Sandow Discussion

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Originally Posted by Tyrion Lannister View Post
If they deserve it why don't they get anything?

That's a rhetorical question btw, the answer is they don't deserve it.
HURR

I fail to believe you're that biased and/or stupid, sometimes.

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Why does anyone listen to Ocitron I may have Let's Go CENA in my signature, granted, but he has Kidd Hawkins Mcguillicutty and Slater. Otherwise known as the faction: Charismaless. All of the bores and the best of them Ziggler, isn't as good as Sandow on the mic.
Well to my defence I like wrestling more than sports entertainment, and I'm sure even Pyro understands that, but doesn't necessarily means he respects my opinion. I respect the fact he has an opinion but usually his opinions are stupid and insanely biased.
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Old 06-20-2012, 06:25 PM   #614 (permalink)
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Default Re: Damien Sandow Discussion

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Well to my defence I like wrestling more than sports entertainment, and I'm sure even Pyro understands that, but doesn't necessarily means he respects my opinion. I respect the fact he has an opinion but usually his opinions are stupid and insanely biased.
Well okay, still, the more impressive wrestlers are still on ROH or NCWA or Dragongate.
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Old 06-20-2012, 06:39 PM   #615 (permalink)
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Default Re: Damien Sandow Discussion

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Oh come on, they're just excited about a character, played naturally, with some actual personality. It's refreshing to see someone who looks like they're using their own words, and not just reciting a script.

And it's just my opinion, but I think you've got your first point backwards. I think the gimmick is OK, and the execution masterful.
I agree with this.

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Wat lol
I swear you're trolling now with this Sandow Stalker gimmick crap.
He's being serious. So am I when I say, Sandow does have potential to be a star. He's great at promos, has a decent look and size, solid in the ring so far and has the a unique gimmick that could take him far in the WWE. You probably don't like Sandow, because you think: ''here's this new guy coming in a taking the push Heath Slater should get''. There's a reason why guys like Heath Slater and Micheal McGillicutty aren't getting pushed and Sandow is.

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Compared to Ziggler he has mic skills. Ziggler can't cut a promo.
False.
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Old 06-20-2012, 06:50 PM   #616 (permalink)
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Default Re: Damien Sandow Discussion

Quote:
False.
Well, if you want to get technical about it, anyone can cut a promo. Ziggler is physically capable of cutting a promo. Being good at it, which he's not in another subject entirely.
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Old 06-20-2012, 07:07 PM   #617 (permalink)
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Default Re: Damien Sandow Discussion

The thing is, he's not the worst of the worst at promos as some people claim him to be. He's not John Morrison bad. If he was, he would never get any mic time, and he certainly wouldn't be given the position of the star of the WWE Download series he has on the WWE YouTube channel if they thought he was a bad speaker. Guys like: Ezekiel Jackson, Justin Gabriel, Tyson Kidd, Jack Swagger, are examples of talent who are horrible on the mic and they're probably in the positions they're in now because of it. However no one mentions them, because Ziggler's the only one who's relevant and popular among the IWC, so the people who don't like Ziggler use petty shit like: ''he cant cut a promo'' and he ''gets no reaction'' as a ammo against the people who like him.

I could post many what I deem good Ziggler promos, but you wouldn't think they're good, because you have blind-hate for Ziggler and probably have a higher standard on what a ''good'' promo is. However in my opinion Ziggler's had some good promos. Is he a great on the mic? No. He's above average in my opinion, but he is in no way awful on the mic like the IWC make him out to be.
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Old 06-20-2012, 07:26 PM   #618 (permalink)
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Default Re: Damien Sandow Discussion

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Originally Posted by Nostalgia View Post
The thing is, he's not the worst of the worst at promos as some people claim him to be. He's not John Morrison bad. If he was, he would never get any mic time, and he certainly wouldn't be given the position of the star of the WWE Download series he has on the WWE YouTube channel if they thought he was a bad speaker. Guys like: Ezekiel Jackson, Justin Gabriel, Tyson Kidd, Jack Swagger, are examples of talent who are horrible on the mic and they're probably in the positions they're in now because of it. However no one mentions them, because Ziggler's the only one who's relevant and popular among the IWC, so the people who don't like Ziggler use petty shit like: ''he cant cut a promo'' and he ''gets no reaction'' as a ammo against the people who like him.
It's funny you say if he was as bad as John Morrison, he'd never get mic time, yet John Morrison got mic time himself. Contradictory? Just a little imo. And he almost never DOES get mic time, and he's almost exactly like John Morrison. Personality wise, they're clones almost, except Ziggler is better than Morrison at speaking, but only because Morrison is the standard of badness to which all others are judged on. He's the Hulk Hogan of bad. Using some Youtube show nobody on the planet watches to justify Ziggler being good on the mic is pretty silly. That show is compromised basically entirely of undercard guys and Ziggler just happens to be the star because he's getting the biggest push out of that lot.

Yeah, he's not Zeke or Swagger bad, but come on, he's bad. An average person on the mic is Kofi Kingston or Cody Rhodes, they're not bad, they're not great, they're just in the middle and good enough to skate by. Ziggler is significantly worse than both of them. And saying he can't cut a promo is not PETTY, that's a deal breaker. If you want to be a big star in WWE and you can't talk, leave.

Quote:
I could post many what I deem good Ziggler promos, but you wouldn't think they're good, because you have blind-hate for Ziggler and probably have a higher standard on what a ''good'' promo is. However in my opinion Ziggler's had some good promos. Is he a great on the mic? No. He's above average in my opinion, but he is in no way awful on the mic like the IWC make him out to be.
I do have a high standard, you're right on that count. The term "blind hate" has got to stop, though. What is blind hate? Anybody who doesn't like exactly what you like down to the letter, 100% is apparantly a blind hater. Which would mean I'm not even thinking about it. According to what blind hate should actually entail, I just hate Ziggler because I woke up one day, looked at a picture of him and said to myself "I'm not gonna like that guy". I assess Ziggler the same way I do everyone else, I see strengths, I see weaknesses. He has no stage presence at all, not commanding of attention in the least. He's bad on the mic and is extremely dull. And even though it's not his fault, he still has probably the worst ring name in the business, third to only McGillicutty and Kassius Ohno, which doesn't help me taking him seriously.

On the positive side, he's got a good look, he's extremely good in the ring (not as good as everyone thinks he is, or even in the top 3 in the company. Top 4.), and he can make anybody look devestating by the way he sells offense.

Blind? Still? I just gave you positives. I don't hate the guy simply because I enjoy hating him. Hell, I'd enjoy him improving to the point where I could become a fan, but we'll never get to that point because he doesn't have the personality in him to get to that level. 6 years of seeing him on tv has made that apparant, nothing blind about it.
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Old 06-20-2012, 08:06 PM   #619 (permalink)
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Default Re: Damien Sandow Discussion

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Originally Posted by Tyrion Lannister View Post
It's funny you say if he was as bad as John Morrison, he'd never get mic time, yet John Morrison got mic time himself. Contradictory? Just a little imo. And he almost never DOES get mic time, and he's almost exactly like John Morrison. Personality wise, they're clones almost, except Ziggler is better than Morrison at speaking, but only because Morrison is the standard of badness to which all others are judged on. He's the Hulk Hogan of bad. Using some Youtube show nobody on the planet watches to justify Ziggler being good on the mic is pretty silly. That show is compromised basically entirely of undercard guys and Ziggler just happens to be the star because he's getting the biggest push out of that lot.
Morrison rarely got mic time, especially after WWE realized how bad he was. Ziggler doesn't get much mic time anymore, but I'm basing that solely on the fact he's been stuck with Vickie and Swagger in the irrlevent tag-team division for the last few months. When he was U.S Champion and had that feud with CM Punk he was getting a decent amount of mic time every week, and you can't say he's got worse since because he's not had any mic time to show for it. For all we know, he could of improved even more. I don't even watch his YouTube show, I just know he hosts it, it's done a lot of episodes, and WWE are reportedly impressed with him for it. I brought up the YouTube thing because WWE wouldn't give Ziggler that role if they thought he was a bad speaker.

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Yeah, he's not Zeke or Swagger bad, but come on, he's bad. An average person on the mic is Kofi Kingston or Cody Rhodes, they're not bad, they're not great, they're just in the middle and good enough to skate by. Ziggler is significantly worse than both of them. And saying he can't cut a promo is not PETTY, that's a deal breaker. If you want to be a big star in WWE and you can't talk, leave.
He's better than Kofi in my opinion. Rhodes is better though. But when you think about guys like Zeke, Swagger, Kidd, Mcgillicutty, Mason Ryan... the list goes on of truly awful mic workers, you realize Ziggler's far from the worst. People just bring up Ziggler because once again he's the only one who's relevant and is an IWC favorite. It is petty because Ziggler CAN cut a promo. If he couldn't, if he absolutely couldn't cut a promo than he wouldn't get promo time with guys like: CM Punk, Mick Foley, Sheamus etc.

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Originally Posted by Tyrion Lannister View Post
I do have a high standard, you're right on that count. The term "blind hate" has got to stop, though. What is blind hate? Anybody who doesn't like exactly what you like down to the letter, 100% is apparantly a blind hater. Which would mean I'm not even thinking about it. According to what blind hate should actually entail, I just hate Ziggler because I woke up one day, looked at a picture of him and said to myself "I'm not gonna like that guy". I assess Ziggler the same way I do everyone else, I see strengths, I see weaknesses. He has no stage presence at all, not commanding of attention in the least. He's bad on the mic and is extremely dull. And even though it's not his fault, he still has probably the worst ring name in the business, third to only McGillicutty and Kassius Ohno, which doesn't help me taking him seriously.

On the positive side, he's got a good look, he's extremely good in the ring (not as good as everyone thinks he is, or even in the top 3 in the company. Top 4.), and he can make anybody look devestating by the way he sells offense.

Blind? Still? I just gave you positives. I don't hate the guy simply because I enjoy hating him. Hell, I'd enjoy him improving to the point where I could become a fan, but we'll never get to that point because he doesn't have the personality in him to get to that level. 6 years of seeing him on tv has made that apparant, nothing blind about it.
No and I thought you knew me better than that. As I've expressed many times on this forum that I don't mind if people don't like the wrestlers I don't like, in fact I welcome it, because it creates interesting discussion like this for example. If everyone liked the same things, the world would be boring. The fact is your views on Ziggler are different though, you've hated Ziggler since day one and will go into every Ziggler thread and tell everyone how much he sucks and how much he'll never be a star.... etc. You'll even send threads like this off-topic because you have to get your redundant point in about him. You do praise him for his ring work, but who doesn't? Only a moron would call Ziggler a bad wrestler. It's not even a positive, it's just stating the obvious.
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Old 06-20-2012, 08:24 PM   #620 (permalink)
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Default Re: Damien Sandow Discussion

I wasn't the one who posted "Ziggler can't cut a promo", which started this whole debate off, but ok, let's ignore this and discuss Sandow, if you've got anything. He doesn't deserve to be spoken of in a thread devoted to someone good anyhow.
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