Austin Aries is the best heel in pro wrestling. - Page 6 - Wrestling Forum : WWE, TNA, ROH, Wrestling Videos, Women of Wrestling Forums
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Old 12-11-2012, 08:29 PM   #51 (permalink)
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Default Re: Austin Aries is the best heel in pro wrestling.

I'm far too baffled to even comprehend how someone could think that. So I'll just laugh and move on.
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Old 12-11-2012, 08:50 PM   #52 (permalink)
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Default Re: Austin Aries is the best heel in pro wrestling.

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Originally Posted by Stocking Filled w/HAYLEY JOY~! View Post
I'm far too baffled to even comprehend how someone could think that. So I'll just laugh and move on.
Laugh all you want. I'm not the one who can't describe my feelings on the quality of both matches in question. "i'll just laugh and move on" is basically a translation for "I can't cough up a worthy argument to the contrary". Lethal Lockdown is played out. Anyone who rates one of those matches in the modern era must have incredibly low standards. War Games died in the early 90s. The concept is pretty much dead. Same crap every year. "Heels beat up the babyfaces, weapons are used to the sound of silence, big bump off the cage, babyfaces over come the odds". Same match, different people. An overbooked clichéd mess.
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Old 12-12-2012, 04:05 AM   #53 (permalink)
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And angle hardy wasn't an overbooked mess where they hit finisher after finisher with no real rhyme and reason making it ultimately very boring?

Plus just saying every lethal lockdown sucks seems ignorant. Sure this years did but 2011s had a host of good talent and ric flair putting in a fantastic performance with his bumping, selling and cockiness getting the better of him ultimately
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Old 12-12-2012, 06:20 AM   #54 (permalink)
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Default Re: Austin Aries is the best heel in pro wrestling.

I didn't see any of the matches being discussed but I personally don't like the Lethal Lockdown concept - it does tend to get boring pretty quickly. In addition, because of that there is a tendency for the more daring wrestlers to push the envelope re: dangerous spots. Might make good viewing for a minute or so but I don't like seeing guys almost break their necks just to get a pop.
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Old 12-12-2012, 06:24 AM   #55 (permalink)
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Default Re: Austin Aries is the best heel in pro wrestling.

Lethal Lockdown has the right idea with the wrong layout usually. One ring gets cramped. 2011 managed to take the essence of what made all the previous war games bouts great and use it in their match. Plus, as stated numerous times, Flair really brought the match together.
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Old 12-12-2012, 07:13 AM   #56 (permalink)
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Default Re: Austin Aries is the best heel in pro wrestling.

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Originally Posted by Seven Sheps a-swimming View Post
And angle hardy wasn't an overbooked mess where they hit finisher after finisher with no real rhyme and reason making it ultimately very boring?
The object of wrestling is to create drama towards the finish and excite the audience you are playing in front of. And when the finish is a time limit draw to set up the biggest PPV of the year, hitting finishers where they kick out does have a reason. Its to show how neither babyface (because it was two babyfaces working against each other) are unbeatable. Having either man lose by pinfall when they have to wrestle in the main event makes absolutely no sense.

And questioning Kurt Angle's ability to work a match shows incredibly idiocy. And you call me ignorant?

Quote:
Plus just saying every lethal lockdown sucks seems ignorant. Sure this years did but 2011s had a host of good talent and ric flair putting in a fantastic performance with his bumping, selling and cockiness getting the better of him ultimately
No it didn't. It was exactly the same match as the year before. Heels over power the babyfaces, who eventually comeback to win following a lot of weapon shops and a bump on top of the cage. Every year the same story. If this was any kind of good match the fans wouldn't have been chanting "we want Flair" while the heels got their heat during the match.
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Old 12-12-2012, 07:18 AM   #57 (permalink)
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Default Re: Austin Aries is the best heel in pro wrestling.

"Best heel in wrestling" is a pretty big statement. Hell, "best heel in TNA" alone is, considering how stacked the roster is. I'm not entirely sure I would put him over Roode, and I DEFINITELY wouldn't put him over Bully Ray. But he still plays a fantastic heel, and I'm sure he can play an excellent face too. Being able to play both roles gives him the nudge over those two as an overall talent (imo), but solely basing it off heel work? idk, he could be comparable to Roode, but not Bully. Ever since ECW, Ray's been one of the all-time great heels.
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Old 12-12-2012, 07:35 AM   #58 (permalink)
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Default Re: Austin Aries is the best heel in pro wrestling.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diesel_Power View Post
The object of wrestling is to create drama towards the finish and excite the audience you are playing in front of. And when the finish is a time limit draw to set up the biggest PPV of the year, hitting finishers where they kick out does have a reason. Its to show how neither babyface (because it was two babyfaces working against each other) are unbeatable. Having either man lose by pinfall when they have to wrestle in the main event makes absolutely no sense.
And when you have a time limit match only to say OVERTIME and OVERTIME because you HAVE to have a winner why have the concept in the first place. Then when you NEED a winner you stop the match from a cut.

Hitting finishers and finishers over and over again devalues them. Fucking CHAVO got hit with an angle slam earlier this year and shook it off like it was nothing. Kurt Angle loves getting all his shit in wrestling because he thinks its about the moves and not telling a story in the ring. James Storm's superkick and Austin Aries' brainbuster are good finishers because they FINISH a match. Kurt hits the first angle slam or ankle lock and you expect the match to go on. Some people might like that kind of stuff but to me it's dumb.

I think you'll like this btw:

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/12263843-post6079.html

Quote:
And questioning Kurt Angle's ability to work a match shows incredibly idiocy. And you call me ignorant?.
There's plenty of people here who'll do the same. Kurt Angle has always needed his hand held in the ring to work a good match. All his best stuff comes with the right guys who know how to wrestle and get the best out of their opponents. In terms of pure natural talent he's a star, I'll not deny that and at his best he's very good. But when he structures the match itself it comes off as a sprint to throw as many Germans and Angle slams and Ankle Locks and intensity in as he can. Just because he was a gold medalist in amateur wrestling doesnt mean he's some pro wrestling god. Totally different sports. The best thing he did this year was the tag match at slammiversary and thats because all he did was a hot tag sequence where he threw his big moves out in less than a minute.


Quote:
No it didn't. It was exactly the same match as the year before. Heels over power the babyfaces, who eventually comeback to win following a lot of weapon shops and a bump on top of the cage. Every year the same story. If this was any kind of good match the fans wouldn't have been chanting "we want Flair" while the heels got their heat during the match.
The bolded could describe 95% of wrestling matches. Its how it's done what makes it different.

Fans chanting for Flair isn't a surprise either. It's TNA, they chant for whoever they recognise. Put Flair in with Fortune and Immortal guys and who will the casuals go for most?
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Old 12-12-2012, 07:54 AM   #59 (permalink)
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Default Re: Austin Aries is the best heel in pro wrestling.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seven Sheps a-swimming View Post
And when you have a time limit match only to say OVERTIME and OVERTIME because you HAVE to have a winner why have the concept in the first place. Then when you NEED a winner you stop the match from a cut.

Hitting finishers and finishers over and over again devalues them. Fucking CHAVO got hit with an angle slam earlier this year and shook it off like it was nothing. Kurt Angle loves getting all his shit in wrestling because he thinks its about the moves and not telling a story in the ring. James Storm's superkick and Austin Aries' brainbuster are good finishers because they FINISH a match. Kurt hits the first angle slam or ankle lock and you expect the match to go on. Some people might like that kind of stuff but to me it's dumb.
My god, you literally have no idea what the goal of a wrestling match is. Or in fact what telling a story is. Do you realise that Kurt Angle's finisher is the grapevined ankle lock? Notice how nobody ever gets out of it when he locks it in? Everyone from Shawn Michaels and Steve Austin to Eric Young and Robbie E has tapped out to it. The fans are educated to know once he locks it in, its over. The Angle Slam and the normal ankle lock haven't been his finishers in years. They are nothing but teases and set ups to the real portion of the match.

Its HILARIOUS that someone is using "3 brainbusters in a row for a 2 count" Austin Aries as an example of someone with a great finisher. Did you see this guy in ROH? And James Storm hardly ever wins with a superkick. Actually he hardly ever wins.


Quote:
I think you'll like this btw:

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/12263843-post6079.html
I dont think it when the person writing hasn't got a clue, so I wont read it.



Quote:
There's plenty of people here who'll do the same. Kurt Angle has always needed his hand held in the ring to work a good match.
HAAAAAAAAAAAHAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!! OH MY GOD!!!! Kurt Angle? The guy who was one of the best wrestlers in the world in the first 6 months of his debut in the WWF?

Quote:
All his best stuff comes with the right guys who know how to wrestle and get the best out of their opponents.
Like Matt Morgan? Or A-Train? Or a few weeks ago when he wrestled better than anyone on the card with a torn groin? You honestly truly think 12 years of having some of the best matches of the century was just Kurt Angle "having his hand held"? You can't be that dumb.

Quote:
But when he structures the match itself it comes off as a sprint to throw as many Germans and Angle slams and Ankle Locks and intensity in as he can.
That is his style. Just like Hogan had a style. Just like Kobashi had a style. Or Flair had a style. You can pick the bones out of every wrestler ever if you really try hard enough. Doesn't make you right.

Quote:
Just because he was a gold medalist in amateur wrestling doesnt mean he's some pro wrestling god.Totally different sports.
Nobody said that. Who said that? The fact he is rated so highly is down to his body of work in the ring, not winning a real sport.

Quote:
The best thing he did this year was the tag match at slammiversary and thats because all he did was a hot tag sequence where he threw his big moves out in less than a minute.
You HONESTLY think that was his only contribution to the match? Again more evidence of you not having a clue what you are talking about.

Quote:
The bolded could describe 95% of wrestling matches. Its how it's done what makes it different.
Bullshit. How it is done makes it different. Because if everyone worked like Shawn Michaels or everyone spoke like CM Punk, that wouldnt make Punk or Michaels special. Wrestling is a business. You must carve your own niche out to be successful. Angle has done this, and his matches speak volumes. He can have matches with everyone from Samoa Joe to shocking workers like Matt Morgan.

Quote:
Fans chanting for Flair isn't a surprise either. It's TNA, they chant for whoever they recognise.
Because they can't get their babyfaces over.

Quote:
Put Flair in with Fortune and Immortal guys and who will the casuals go for most?
Well dont have him as a heel then. If he is going to outshine your babyfaces, dont have him working as a heel in the main event and making your supposed home grown stars look like dicks.
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Old 12-12-2012, 08:19 AM   #60 (permalink)
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Default Re: Austin Aries is the best heel in pro wrestling.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diesel_Power View Post
My god, you literally have no idea what the goal of a wrestling match is. Or in fact what telling a story is. Do you realise that Kurt Angle's finisher is the grapevined ankle lock? Notice how nobody ever gets out of it when he locks it in?
That grapevined ankle lock sure is useful when his entire offense is useful when his mainly suplex based offense works on the back leading up to the Angle Slam finisher. Why not just go straight for the ankle if NOBODY gets out? Like cmon, that's poor psychology right there.


Quote:
Everyone from Shawn Michaels and Steve Austin to Eric Young and Robbie E has tapped out to it. The fans are educated to know once he locks it in, its over. The Angle Slam and the normal ankle lock haven't been his finishers in years. They are nothing but teases and set ups to the real portion of the match.
So how many matches has he finished with the grapevine recently? B/c to me it looks like the normal ankle lock is his go to thing.

Quote:
Its HILARIOUS that someone is using "3 brainbusters in a row for a 2 count" Austin Aries as an example of someone with a great finisher. Did you see this guy in ROH?
When did Aries use that in TNA? ROH isn't relevant to this argument b/c I'll admit that they overuse finishers but their fans eat that crap up (see Richards/Elgin from this year). Aries 9/10 times gets the pin with the brainbuster. His entire X Division title run more or less consisted of it. Also beating Bobby Roode at Destination X

Quote:
And James Storm hardly ever wins with a superkick. Actually he hardly ever wins.
Turning Point 2012. What else would he win with?



Quote:
I dont think it when the person writing hasn't got a clue, so I wont read it.
Nice copout.




Quote:
HAAAAAAAAAAAHAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!! OH MY GOD!!!! Kurt Angle? The guy who was one of the best wrestlers in the world in the first 6 months of his debut in the WWF?
His best matches come with better workers like Austin or Taker or Benoit. In his first 6 months he wasn't in charge of structuring his own matches. I already said he's a great natural talent and as long as he's told what to do then yeah he's great.

Quote:
Like Matt Morgan? Or A-Train? Or a few weeks ago when he wrestled better than anyone on the card with a torn groin? You honestly truly think 12 years of having some of the best matches of the century was just Kurt Angle "having his hand held"? You can't be that dumb.
Please show me these great matches and tell me why they're great. Matt Morgan is atrocious so I really struggle to think they did anything worthwhile. In fact tell me what Kurts best TNA matches are. Surprised you didn't mention the Anderson match since Anderson is terrible and Kurt got him to a slightly above average match.

Quote:
That is his style. Just like Hogan had a style. Just like Kobashi had a style. Or Flair had a style. You can pick the bones out of every wrestler ever if you really try hard enough. Doesn't make you right.
Yeah it's his style. Davey Richards and the ROH guys (which you had a go at earlier with the Aries comment) use it too and I hate it. I said it might appeal to some but it sure doesn't to me. You can say it's great but it doesn't make you right either. There is no definitive "right" style of wrestling in a subjective sport like wrestling.

Quote:
Nobody said that. Who said that? The fact he is rated so highly is down to his body of work in the ring, not winning a real sport.
I've heard people say it. They think he's some great amateur wrestler so he has to be good at this too. If we're talking about his body of work then his best is very good, but his worst is absolute trash.


Quote:
You HONESTLY think that was his only contribution to the match? Again more evidence of you not having a clue what you are talking about.
Okay so what else did he do? AJ played the Face in Peril and Angle was the guy who came in and did the big workover for a pop. He suits that role well since it requires short bursts of INTENSITY.


Quote:
Bullshit. How it is done makes it different. Because if everyone worked like Shawn Michaels or everyone spoke like CM Punk, that wouldnt make Punk or Michaels special. Wrestling is a business. You must carve your own niche out to be successful. Angle has done this, and his matches speak volumes. He can have matches with everyone from Samoa Joe to shocking workers like Matt Morgan.
I said how it's done is what makes it different? CM Punk's babyface run works because he's a great seller which babyfaces need when they're getting beaten down. Then he builds his comeback with the neckbreaker, knee to face etc and hitting the GTS. Great workers like Punk, Cena, Rey all know how to sell a workover and get the fans invested in their babyface comeback. Just like great heels like a Finlay know how to keep their offense interested and not just sit in rest holds forever.

Joe works well with Angle, absolutely. He slows him right down. Again, show me a good Angle vs Morgan match.

Quote:
Because they can't get their babyfaces over.
Sure you could say that. You could also say the crowd in Ohio would also consist of half casuals. TNA hasn't exactly got a giant audience who are going to know who everyone is. It's the same when they came to the UK, most people came for Hogan and Sting, not Bobby Roode or James Storm.



Quote:
Well dont have him as a heel then. If he is going to outshine your babyfaces, dont have him working as a heel in the main event and making your supposed home grown stars look like dicks.
He got his ass beat and worked a good match in my opinion. I really couldn't care less that some people cheered him. People have been cheering heels for years now.
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