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Old 03-10-2013, 12:15 AM   #61 (permalink)
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Default Re: Top 10 NBA players of all time

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Originally Posted by Freeloader View Post
Post #3 - No Kobe top 10
Post #17 - No Kobe top 10

Who's reading comprehension sucks? Fool.




Kobe is not higher than Shaq. Shaq carrying Kobe to 3 finals and Shaq winning the MVP every single time makes Kobe his bitch, end of story. Kobe over Bird is funny. Kobe over Wilt is fucking hilarious.

You're kidding right? You're starting to feel like a huge troll man. Shaq NEVER made an All Nba Defensive First Team. Kobe made it NINE times. His defense has been amazing until recent years and even then, when he wants to, he can shut down the other teams best player meanwhile still putting up 30 5 and 5..




Also you talked about this competition Shaq had at the C position. WHO? Yao Ming? Ben Wallace?.




Also Shaq in the 2006 NBA Finals.




Game 1: 17 pts and 7 rebs (1-9 from the free throw line).
Game 2: 5 pts and 6 rebs.
Game 3: 16 pts and 11 rebs (7 turnovers FOR A CENTER).
Game 4: 17 pts and 13 rebs (best game).
Game 5: 18 pts and 12 rebs.
Game 6: 9 pts and 12 rebs.




For a total of: 13.6 ppg and 10 rpg (Thats VERY far from dominant. Like I said he was AVERAGE on this team.).




As far as your double and triple teaming goes to take the ball out of his hands have you ever watched Kobe play? He is ALWAYS double and tripled teamed.
[/b]

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/pos...in-crunch-time

"However, don't confuse Bryant's domination of the ball with Jackson's endorsement of the plan. In the same book, Jackson tells of his annoyance at Bryant's ball-hogging in crunch time. In one instance, he describes drawing up a play with multiple options, in crunch time of a 2004 playoff series against Houston. Bryant destroyed all the options; instead of setting a baseline screen for Shaquille O'Neal he ran straight to the ball. "With the twenty-four-second clock winding down," writes Jackson, "Kobe forced a long jumper, a horrible shot in the game's most critical possession. The ball did not reach the rim..."

Phil Jackson had munch worse words for Shaq than he did for Kobe. It wouldn't be Christmas without a Shaq-Kobe feud, and now it seems Phil Jackson wants in on the tradition.

Jackson, who once upon a time seemed to favor his star center over his star shooting guard, on Sunday called out O'Neal, saying he was "the only person I've ever had that hasn't been a worker."

Shaq, who is rarely at a loss for words, was asked about Jackson's comments on Monday following Miami's 101-85 win over O'Neal's former team.

"How can Benedict Arnold be reliable in what he says?" the Big Aristotle was quoted as saying in Tuesday's edition of The Los Angeles Times. O'Neal declined to elaborate on his statement and, since he was in street clothes for the game, was not required to give a formal post-game interview.

O'Neal and Bryant had been feuding since O'Neal's trade to Miami following the 2003-04 season. But last year the two superstars stated publicly that they had reconciled their differences.

Then came Jackson's comments on Sunday.

"He's the one guy that didn't really like to work," said the coach who boasts nine NBA championship rings. "I know Pat [Riley] got him working here in Miami. We had a hard time getting him to work. All the other players -- Michael [Jordan], Scottie [Pippen], Dennis Rodman, all those guys that we had, Horace Grant, they're all hard-working practice and personal work players."

Of course, O'Neal was not the only player Jackson prodded. Speaking about Dwyane Wade, Shaq's new partner in crime and last year's NBA Finals MVP, Jackson said, "He travels on that spin move. He picks up that pivot foot ... everybody knows it. Dwyane Wade can cover so much ground when he makes that move. As you know, he can go 20 feet with that spin move and get to the basket."

While Jackson's comments are sure to refuel a media frenzy that was threatening to die down, it did little to help his team, which has lost three of five.



Fucking MIKE BIBBY is ahead of Kobe Bryant. Kobe's about as clutch as asking a a guy on a job interview who the picture of the cunt is on his desk is at landing you a job. He scores a lot of points. He won two NBA Championships as the best player on his team. Those early Laker titles - "Big Shot Bob" AKA Robert Horry was the one saving the Lakers, not fucking Kobe. Game 4 - Western conference finals looming, about to go down 3-1 to Sacramento - Big Shot Bob had to bail Kobe's ass out after he missed a layup. A layup.



Kobe is a good player, and he is not top 10 of all time. I could stop here, but while I'm using you as my personal pinata, let's look at another reference, since you claim I provided no evidence.

http://www.libertyballers.com/2012/2...fs-4th-quarter
A Statistical Analysis Of Clutch NBA Shooters Since 2000

Some key phrases:

"Of the 15 players listed, Kobe Bryant's shooting percentage (40%) was below average."

"Kobe's percentage (41%) was slightly below average and LeBron had the best percentage (47%)."

LeBron ranked ahead of Kobe in 7 of the 8 samples, including all three playoff samples."



Are these selective pulls from the article? Yeap, but feel free to read the article in it's entirety.

I basically just stood on your chest and ripped large chunks of flesh out of your body while you flailed around making shrill like shrikes. Next time you try to get all huffy and be a bigshot up here, you should probably make sure it isn't against someone who is light years ahead of you and can completely bury you at their leisure. Have fun dragging your carcass back home, Cletus.
Please stop talking basketball you might be biggest moron I have ever seen on any forum. That or amazing troll. I posted numbers and stats and you don't like it. Shaq and Kobe were 1A/1b other than 2000 series were Shaq was far away the man of his team. Here are the numbers. How was Shaq was so munch better than Kobe again?

001 NBA Playoffs
Shaq - 30.4 ppg, 15.4 rpg, 3.2 apg, 55.5 FG%, 56.4 TS%
Kobe - 29.4 ppg, 7.3 rpg, 6.1 apg, 46.9 FG%, 55.5 TS%

2002 NBA Playoffs
Shaq - 28.5 ppg, 12.6 rpg, 2.8 apg, 52.9 FG%, 56.9 TS%
Kobe - 26.6 ppg, 5.8 rpg, 4.6 apg, 43.4 FG%, 51.1 TS%

Kobe led the lakers in PPG and APG through through entire Western Conference Playoffs in 2001 and 2002

2001 NBA Playoffs - First 3 Rounds
Kobe - 31.6 PPG, 7.0 RPG, 6.3 APG, .492 FG%
Shaq - 29.3 PPG, 15.3 RPG, 2.5 APG, .547 FG%

2002 NBA Playoffs - First 3 Rounds
Kobe - 26.6 PPG, 5.8 RPG, 4.4 APG, .418 FG%
Shaq - 26.4 PPG, 12.7 RPG, 2.6 APG, .510 FG%

Kobe led the Lakers in PPG and APG in 2/4 series in 2001 and 2/4 series in 2002. A total of 4/8 series both years combined.

2001 Western Conf Semifnals
2001 Western Conf Finals
2002 Western Conf 1st Round
2002 Western Conf Semifinals

Kobe led the Lakers in Field Goals Made in the 2nd Half and 4th Quarters of the 2002 NBA Playoffs

2002 NBA Playoffs - 2nd Half+OT
Bryant - 97/214 FG, 17/37 3PT, 45.3 FG%, 49.3 eFG%, 45.9 3PT% in 19 games
O'Neal - 85/186 FG, 0/0 3PT, 45.7 FG%, 45.7 eFG%, 0.0 3PT% in 19 games

2002 NBA Playoffs - 4th Quarter+OT
Bryant - 52/106 FG, 12/24 3PT, 49.1 FG%, 54.7 eFG%, 50.0 3PT% in 19 games
O'Neal - 32/85 FG, 0/0 3PT, 37.6 FG%, 37.6 eFG%, 0.0 3PT% in 18 games

Please come back with some stats to atleast base your opinion. All that is coming out of your mouth is pure crap. Kobe top 10 and munch higher deal with it. It's very clear to me you know little to none of knowledge for the game of basketball. It's okay. Science will save you.

Oh and to that post of yours makes me. Are you 12 years old?
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Old 03-10-2013, 12:35 AM   #62 (permalink)
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Old 03-10-2013, 12:37 AM   #63 (permalink)
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Default Re: Top 10 NBA players of all time

Hey guys calm down and argue without insults.
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Old 03-10-2013, 01:07 AM   #64 (permalink)
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Hey guys calm down and argue without insults.
Sorry about that. But is their age limit on how old you have be join the wrestling forum?
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Old 03-10-2013, 01:08 AM   #65 (permalink)
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Hey guys calm down and argue without insults.
Sorry about that. But is their age limit on how old you have be join the wrestling forum? Just curious. That poster was guilty of trolling.
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Old 03-10-2013, 01:12 AM   #66 (permalink)
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Default Re: Top 10 NBA players of all time

Yeah there is. But he's probably over that age. By all means continue the argument, but don't use insults.
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Old 03-10-2013, 10:18 AM   #67 (permalink)
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Default Re: Top 10 NBA players of all time

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But ...sell's teammates were so good because he made everyone around him better. He was the ultimate team player.


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Ultimately, ...sell has way more rings...but I try to figure in stats somewhere.

Karl Malone...36,928 career points, 14,968 rebounds, 5,238 assists
Bill ...sell...14,522 points, 21,620 boards, 4,100 assists

Plus, ...sell and Wilt for their generation were head-over-heels better than pretty much everyone at that time. The gap was considerably less during Karl's time. Plus, if he had stayed healthy that one more season, he'd be the all-time leading scorer.
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Old 03-10-2013, 10:34 AM   #68 (permalink)
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Kobe above Shaq career wise I don't see how anyone else things differently. Here great article.

Who's Better: Kobe Vs. Shaq

Sports fans love to debate great players and give their opinions on who they think is better than who. And last night Kobe Bryant surpassed Shaq on the all time points list in NBA history and that prompted the who's the greater player debates. So that got me thinking and I decided to give my 2 cents in this series I'm starting called Who's Better?

Shaquille O'Neal - Center, 7'1 325, 18 Years Pro.
Career Averages - PPG: 23.7 RPG: 10.9 BPG: 2.3 APG: 2.5 SPG: 0.6 FG%: 58.2
Career Totals - Points: 28,596 Reb: 13,099 Blocks: 2,732 Assist: 3,026 Steals: 739
Awards: NBA Champion (4), Finals MVP (3), Regular Season MVP (1), Rookie Of The Year, NBA All Star (15), Regular Season Scoring Champ (2), All NBA (14), All Defensive (3)
Arguments For: Shaq is considered by many to be the most dominant offensive big man of all time and having not seen Wilt play I'd have to agree. I didn't even really get to see Shaq in his Magic Days either. But I saw enough in the late 90's early and mid 2000s to speak on his dominance. Shaq was unlike anything I'd ever seen before from a pure dominance perspective. I watched as in the 4th quarter they gave the ball to Shaq and normally either one of two things happened, he either scored 2 or got fouled but rarely did he not score. He had his way against everybody even against some of the best defensive players in the NBA at the time and really best defensive players all time like Alonzo Morning, Mutombo, David Robinson, Hakeem, and others. He's most known for Dunking the ball at the rim usually via his ferocious drop step. Shaq in his prime was also a very good defender and often because of his size and athleticism was an intimidating force in the middle blocking shots effortlessly.

Arguments Against: As dominant as Shaq was he had his flaws, his biggest being his free throw shooting. He was a career 52.7% free throw shooter and only shot over 60% from the line once out of 18 seasons. As dominant as he was shooting in the high 40s low 50s can be detrimental to the team and is unacceptable even for Centers. He was so bad that in the 4th quarter and sometimes even earlier in the game teams would just foul him intentionally instead of having to deal with him. Another flaw was that Shaq had his share of problems with injury. Not counting the lockout season he failed to reach 60 games played in 8 of his 18 seasons played meaning he missed at least 1/4 of the season 8 times which is over 40% of his career. Also Shaq just had no game what so ever outside of the paint so in the rare situations he was forced away from the rim he wasn't nearly as effective. In my opinion his arsenal of post moves wasn't elite he was just bigger, stronger, and more athletic and physically gifted overall than all of his competition during his prime. Also as Shaq started to get older he fell of as a defensive player where as other elite bigs like Duncan, Mutumbo, KG, Robinson and Hakeem all remained great defenders once they got older and their offensive games started to decline. Towards the end of his career he let himself get into horrible shape which I believe may have caused his injury issues and ultimately he became a lazy shell of his former self and probably stayed around a little too long.

Kobe Bryant - SG, 6'6 205, 16 Years Pro
Career Averages - PPG: 25.4 APG: 4.7 RPG: 5.3 SPG: 1.5 BPG: 0.5
Career Totals - Points: 28,601 Assist: 5,289 Rebounds: 5,975 Steals: 1683 Blocks: 585
Awards - NBA Champion (5), Finals MVP (2), Regular Season MVP (1), NBA All Star (14), Regular Season Scoring Champ (2), All NBA (13), All Defensive (11),
Arguments For: Kobe will go down as the 2nd greatest SG of all time and one of the greatest perimeter scorers ever as well. You might have forgot from watching Kobe the past couple season but their was a time he was one of the most athletic and explosive players in the NBA and could get to the paint or to the line at will. His career has been similar to Jordan's in that once his athleticism left him he remained one of the best players by changing his game a little as just like Jordan Kobe started to revolve his game more around scoring from post up and triple threat positions. Kobe has some of the best footwork and ability to work from the pivot of all time. And his fade away shot is in the same class with Jordan's in my opinion. I've seen Kobe hit what I like to call demoralizing shots. Those are the shots where the defense is perfect or you've got him double teamed and he just fades or leans to get just a little space to get it off and goes in as if he were in the gym wide open. Those shots especially in the 4th just take the air out of your team and your fans if your at home. He's the best I've personally ever seen at hitting difficult seemingly un make-able shots. Also Kobe will go down as one of the best perimeter defenders of all time. Just like Jordan Kobe could dominate the game on offense and then dominate it on the defensive end the same night. A couple years ago Kobe finally put the he can't do it without Shaq talk to bed and afterwards he won another one the very next year just to let everybody know it wasn't luck. Also Kobe has been one of the most durable players in the history of the game and because of it just might pass Kareem as the all time points leader. Not counting the lockout year Kobe has played over 60 games every single season of his career and is rarely ever out of the lineup. Even though he's never had a major sidelining injury in his career he has had some painful ones and when most players might sit out a game or two Kobe fights through the pain and plays anyway and still performs at a high level even when hurt.

Arguments Against:
My major knock on Kobe is that at times I don't think he t...t his teammates enough. And I'm not talking about those few seasons he played with Smush Parker and Kwame Brown either. Kobe simply will jack up some really bad shots (even tho he'll hit them at times) in crucial situations and I've seen him lose as many games in crunch time as he's won. Some would talk about his attitude or cockiness but not me I actually like it, matter of fact I love it. He probably wouldn't be Kobe without it. You don't get the rep of being one of the greatest closers and winners of all time and a nickname like the Black Mamba by wanted to kiss everyone's ass and be nice to everyone. When it's time Kobe has that F**K you attitude towards his competition and goes into assassin mode and I love it. There's also some off the court stuff some people might reach for but again not me has nothing to do with basketball. To be honest other than Kobe's selfishness at times there isn't really anything else about his game I have a problem with.

Who's Better? For the longest I've been one of the main people driving the Shaq's greater than Kobe bandwagon that is until now. Throughout my research for this post my mind was changed by the facts and info I gathered. Kobe played at an elite level longer than Shaq did and still isn't even finished yet. He has more rings than Shaq and now that I think about it Shaq was carried to his 4th ring by Wade in a way that Kobe was never carried. Even though Shaq won finals MVP on all 3 title teams they played together on Kobe was almost equally important to all those team I'd say accept the 1st one I'd say Shaq carried the Lakers in 2000 back when Kobe only avg like 22 that year but every year after that Kobe was and elite top 5 player and was just as important to the Lakers as Shaq was. But Ultimately what made me change my mind was one simple question. Over a 15 year period who would I wanna start a team with and my answer was Kobe. Kobe's gonna always be there because he keeps himself in great condition and is never seriously hurt. Kobe's gonna be an elite defender just about his whole career. And teams aren't gonna hack Kobe because he can't shoot FT's. Make no mistake though the decision was a tough one and both players are top 10 ever and 2 of the all time greats but I think Kobe slightly edges out Shaq. So who's better between Shaq and Kobe? I say Kobe Bryant.

Link: http://www.thecoachbuck.com/2012/02/...e-vs-shaq.html
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Old 03-10-2013, 11:10 AM   #69 (permalink)
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Default Re: Top 10 NBA players of all time

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Originally Posted by Chillez View Post
Sorry about that. But is their age limit on how old you have be join the wrestling forum? Just curious. That poster was guilty of trolling.
Kicking your ass in a discussion is trolling?

Do you even know what trolling is?



Even Kobe frowns on you. You got buried and now you're just tossing phrases around in desperation to look less defeated. You lost. I'm not suggesting you did. I'm telling you that you did.

Quote:
Kobe above Shaq career wise I don't see how anyone else things differently. Here great article.
Waste of time article, it is an opinion piece from a Kobe fan. Meanwhile I cited ACTUAL FACT with Kobe being not clutch. Something you conveniently ignored like a champ, because you realized you got buried and now you're in damage control mode citing irrelevant drivel like "how old are you" when it's quite clear I'm old enough to of been watching the NBA for quite a while now.

http://www.nba.com/history/finalsmvps.html

Quote:
2000 -- Shaquille O'Neal, L.A. Lakers
Averaged 38.0 points, 16.7 rebounds and 2.67 blocks to lead the Lakers to a 4-2 victory over the Indiana Pacers and the franchise’s first NBA Championship since 1988. O’Neal’s best Finals performances came at the Staples Center with 43 points, 19 rebounds in Game #1, 40 points, 24 rebounds in Game #2 and 41 points, 12 rebounds in Game #6.

2001 -- Shaquille O'Neal, L.A. Lakers
Averaged 33.0 points, 15.6 rebounds and 3.40 blocks to lead the Lakers to a 4-1victory over the Philadelphia 76ers and the franchise’s second consecutive NBA Championship. O’Neal’s best Finals performances came at the Staples Center with 44 points, 20 rebounds and five assists in Game #1, 28 points, 20 rebounds and nine assists in Game #2 and 34 points, 14 rebounds in Game #4.

2002 -- Shaquille O'Neal, L.A. Lakers
Averaged 36.3 points, 12.3 rebounds and 2.75 blocks to lead the Lakers to a sweep of the New Jersey Nets and the franchise’s third consecutive NBA Championship. O’Neal’s best Finals performances came at the Staples Center with 36 points, 16 rebounds and four blocks in Game #1, 40 points, 12 rebounds and eight assists in Game #2, 35 points, 11 rebounds and four blocks in Game #3.
Shaq was the main catalyst to those teams. Facts, like I cited before, prove that. All you have is irrelevant nonsense from sources you personally like.

You're 0-2 now. You'll be 0-3 if you post again and try to flex some sort of intellectual superiority over me once again.

To Recap:

- Failed to read multiple people who did not list Kobe, then talked about others reading comprehension.
- Failed to acknowledge that Shaq, not Kobe, was finals MVP and the best player on those Laker teams
- Failed to acknowledge that Kobe isn't as clutch as people think.
- Failed to acknowledge that Phil pretty much lol'd @ Kobe
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Old 03-10-2013, 11:40 AM   #70 (permalink)
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Default Re: Top 10 NBA players of all time

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Originally Posted by Freeloader View Post
Kicking your ass in a discussion is trolling?

Do you even know what trolling is?



Even Kobe frowns on you. You got buried and now you're just tossing phrases around in desperation to look less defeated. You lost. I'm not suggesting you did. I'm telling you that you did.

When did I get banned? Hmm looks to me I am still here. Good try though.

Waste of time article, it is an opinion piece from a Kobe fan. Meanwhile I cited ACTUAL FACT with Kobe being not clutch. Something you conveniently ignored like a champ, because you realized you got buried and now you're in damage control mode citing irrelevant drivel like "how old are you" when it's quite clear I'm old enough to of been watching the NBA for quite a while now.

http://www.nba.com/history/finalsmvps.html

Actually no that article was written by fomer NBA executive. Try to do some research bud. Just like you ignoring stats I posted with actual facts. Nah, you seem like typical basement trolling troll that has nothing else better to do than say crazy out of this world things. With ZERO knowledge to back since claims other than some bogus clutch article. Big deal that's only one part of the game. While Kobe has better overall stats across the board with more championships, NBA 1st team on offense and defense, assist, and points. Shaq sucked after he left the Lakers he was shell of his former self.

Shaq was the main catalyst to those teams. Facts, like I cited before, prove that. All you have is irrelevant nonsense from sources you personally like.

You're 0-2 now. You'll be 0-3 if you post again and try to flex some sort of intellectual superiority over me once again.

To Recap:

- Failed to read multiple people who did not list Kobe, then talked about others reading comprehension.
- Failed to acknowledge that Shaq, not Kobe, was finals MVP and the best player on those Laker teams
- Failed to acknowledge that Kobe isn't as clutch as people think.
- Failed to acknowledge that Phil pretty much lol'd @ Kobe
lol if I am 0-3 you are 0-1,000,000. Those were numbers/stats of playoffs in Western conference. Kobe stats were as good if not better in 01 along with other years. haha you just going to ignore those? Figures as munch. Shaq won those (FMVP) due to East having no center to contain or slow Shaq down that was basic main reason. Kobe is clutch point blank. Anyone that says otherwise just as an agenda. Phil was talking down worse on Shaq than he was Kobe. He called Shaq fat and lazy he also was known to show up to training camp unmotivated it drove him nuts. You going keep going? This making you look pretty bad man.
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