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post #31 of 100 (permalink) Old 03-04-2013, 08:41 PM
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Re: Top 10 NBA players of all time

Robinson wasn't dominant in 1999, he passed the torch as soon as Duncan came on the scene. And I didn't say it took him out of the conversation, I said it hurt his legacy. It was the same as LeBron's 2011 performance, both shocking and hurt their respective legacies. And Kobe is one of the greatest guard defenders, his defense is vastly overrated. He should have stopped making All D teams (especially first teams) in about 2009. Kobe is consensus top 10 to most, you're right, but there are plenty of good arguments that leave him out of it. I've seen debates on boards like realgm where people have put Garnett/LeBron/etc over him and backed up their arguments quite well. He isn't consensus top 10, like Jordan is top 3, Magic top 5, etc.

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post #32 of 100 (permalink) Old 03-04-2013, 09:12 PM
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Re: Top 10 NBA players of all time

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Robinson wasn't dominant in 1999, he passed the torch as soon as Duncan came on the scene. And I didn't say it took him out of the conversation, I said it hurt his legacy. It was the same as LeBron's 2011 performance, both shocking and hurt their respective legacies. And Kobe is one of the greatest guard defenders, his defense is vastly overrated. He should have stopped making All D teams (especially first teams) in about 2009. Kobe is consensus top 10 to most, you're right, but there are plenty of good arguments that leave him out of it. I've seen debates on boards like realgm where people have put Garnett/LeBron/etc over him and backed up their arguments quite well. He isn't consensus top 10, like Jordan is top 3, Magic top 5, etc.
Are these the same people that say Pau should've been Finals MVP in 2010? I'd love to read the argument for KG over Kobe though.


Kobe established himself in the top 10 with his 5th championship. 3 as second option and 2 as first option along with 7 Finals appearances.

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post #33 of 100 (permalink) Old 03-04-2013, 09:18 PM
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Re: Top 10 NBA players of all time

Probably, but people who think that probably don't think Kobe is top 15 and was nothing more than a lucky SG who piggybacked off Shaq. I hate the argument that if AI/Carter/McGrady (he probably could, though)/any somewhat good SG replaced Kobe they'd still win 3 rings or more.

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post #34 of 100 (permalink) Old 03-04-2013, 09:28 PM
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Re: Top 10 NBA players of all time

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Probably, but people who think that probably don't think Kobe is top 15 and was nothing more than a lucky SG who piggybacked off Shaq. I hate the argument that if AI/Carter/McGrady (he probably could, though)/any somewhat good SG replaced Kobe they'd still win 3 rings or more.
Shaq probably could've taken the early 2000 Kobe rivals (just peak TMac, and maybe Vince) to a championship but I'm not sure if those guys would've been capable of taking down the Spurs or even the Kings with Shaq in foul trouble/not main option in the 4th. Kobe used to destroy the Spurs back then. AI and Shaq combo would've been a worse pairing than Kobe & Shaq. I'd argue AI is even more selfish and egotistical than Kobe.

Besides, Shaq couldn't win with Penny who was pretty damn good back then.
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post #35 of 100 (permalink) Old 03-04-2013, 09:35 PM
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Re: Top 10 NBA players of all time

Shaq was doing quite well against Hakeem in the finals though (unlike the famous myth that Hakeem babied Shaq during that series), NICK ANDERSON. That is all. I doubt they win a ring with Vince/AI for the reasons you said, prime McGrady I say they do though. McGrady outplayed Kobe nearly every game during 01-04 I think, there's a vid of all of their head to head matchups on youtube.

Here's some good posts/threads about Garnett during his peak (and some other nice info too):
http://forums.realgm.com/boards/view...=165#p33070026
http://forums.realgm.com/boards/view...f=64&t=1202635
http://forums.realgm.com/boards/view...f=64&t=1202376

It's a long read, but it's worth it. And people at RealGM value peak quite highly, which explains why some have KG over Kobe or right behind him.

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post #36 of 100 (permalink) Old 03-04-2013, 09:51 PM
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Re: Top 10 NBA players of all time

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This post has some much fail I don't know where to start. Karl Malone in top 10 without one championship is a joke. 1st) Karl Malone was a postseason choker and came up small time and time again in postseason. He never really had good postseason in his entire career better than other top 10 GOAT players.
Career 25/11/3/1/3 in the playoffs isn't good enough for you?

http://espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2012...-5-karl-malone

Just an example, 25/11/4/1/1 on 50% in the 1998 finals at the age of 34 against Rodman.

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You're fucken damn right, you've rustled my jimmies & I assume everyone else's!!! I tell you what, I'll pay your airfare over to Melbourne, it will only be a one way ticket though, because I will KILL you, you child molesting fuckwit!!!

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post #37 of 100 (permalink) Old 03-04-2013, 10:16 PM
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Re: Top 10 NBA players of all time

I'll definitely take a look at the KG over Kobe arguments. He was too loyal to the Wolves for his own good tbh. Did he really have peaks greater than Kobe's scoring outbursts back when he was with scrubs like Kwame and Smush?


As far as Malone goes... as great and consistent as he was, you just can't put guys who never won in the top 10. Top 15-20? Sure but not the top 10. Same reason Barkley, Elgin Baylor, etc are rarely in the discussion.
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post #38 of 100 (permalink) Old 03-04-2013, 10:21 PM
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Re: Top 10 NBA players of all time

Malone outperformed Barkley in nearly every aspect though, his main advantages are defense and longevity. Whatever gap Barkley has over him in rebounding, Malone shits on him in defense and longevity. That's Malone's main adventage imo, his longevity. Only rivaled by Kobe

And yeah, as far as two way goes, he was anchoring that defense while being the leading scorer/rebounder I think every year. The main knock against him is that he missed the playoffs a few times, but I really can't blame him with some of the teams he wound up with.

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post #39 of 100 (permalink) Old 03-04-2013, 10:44 PM
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Re: Top 10 NBA players of all time

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Malone outperformed Barkley in nearly every aspect though, his main advantages are defense and longevity. Whatever gap Barkley has over him in rebounding, Malone shits on him in defense and longevity. That's Malone's main adventage imo, his longevity. Only rivaled by Kobe

And yeah, as far as two way goes, he was anchoring that defense while being the leading scorer/rebounder I think every year. The main knock against him is that he missed the playoffs a few times, but I really can't blame him with some of the teams he wound up with.
No doubt. I'd have Malone over Barkley, I was just giving examples. I do think longevity is a key value though, it's why I have Kareem and Kobe so high on my list. Kobe doing 27/5/5 in his 17th year is just ridiculous. He's just one of those players people won't fully appreciate until he's out of the league.


I think it's a little unfair to compare a big to a guard when it comes to defense. Hard to imagine a guard anchoring a defense or having a ton of impact on defense unless you got a pair together ala MJ/Pippen or even LeBron/Wade. KG definitely was/is a unique player though.

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post #40 of 100 (permalink) Old 03-04-2013, 11:03 PM
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Re: Top 10 NBA players of all time

I wasn't saying that Kobe should have anchored the defense, I was just bringing up that that was a huge plus for Garnett. For the record, realgm has Kobe #15 and putting his peak as 2008. I disagree, I have Kobe's peak (and best year) as 03. 30-7-6 on 45% and 38% from 3 (his career best) with an out of shape/injured Shaq, played nearly 42 MPG and the best defense of his career.

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