[NoGimmicksNeeded]

Originally Posted by WOOLCOCK

Agreed on it only ending when fans stop paying the prices. City returning 900 tickets was a promising start, but I don't have faith in United or Chelsea to follow suit which essentially undermines the whole principle. Too many people either with the money to pay it or just not prepared to boycott.

Ticket prices are a big factor, though its more away from home that that problem really dominates. Average away ticket for a United fan is around £40-42 which for me is far too much. Blackburn going down was a blow as they, Bolton and Wigan were the cheapest away tickets every year. OT is dear in parts (away fans and south stand/north stand), but K Stand lower is around £29/30 which is more manageable. Main reason I don't go OT however is not wanting to pay the Glazers (personal stance), a lot of my mates who used to go knocking it on the head and only doing aways/random games and generally just not enjoying the average match compared to even 6 years back when it wasn't exactly great but still better than the last season I actively went.

I really don't have as much vested interest in football either. I'll watch games but largely in the background and I don't keep up to date at all generally with transfers/prospects apart from the really obvious and well known youngsters. I mainly just see football as a good day out with mates, a laugh and in the case of an away a chance to go to a new town/city for half a day and get a bit merry on ale. Winning and losing in the grand scheme of things really doesn't affect me as much as it might have done back in 2005/2006. My team will still be there next week and I'll just take it on a game by game basis.

I'll hopefully be back into FC games fairly regularly in the near future with some extra money to burn. Will probably look into a season ticket at the new ground in Moston whenever it gets around to finally being built.

I know exactly how you feel. Every year I'll have a conversation around October which will be the first time I'll find out about a summer transfer, whereas ten years ago I could have laid out every top flight move that year and most of the Championship signings, too.

The problem with the boycott thing, at the big clubs anyway, is that those tickets will sell. Say Liverpool started asking £70 a ticket for the United game; even if every season ticket holder refused, they'd still sell a ton on general sale. When you start factoring in all the other away costs, it's just too much. The fans that come to Old Trafford every two weeks from London, Ireland etc have respect from me - the love you have to have for a club to do that consistently is admirable, people who haven't attended matches don't see the effort it takes.

The end of last season probably would have crushed me when I was younger, but the same evening I was in the pub joking about it with a blue mate. I can't envisage a time I'm not watching United games but the investment I have seems to be diminishing over time. Everything seems so serious now.

Good work supporting FC man, I've heard great things about the club. Fantastic supporter's atmosphere apparently.

[WOOLCOCK]

Originally Posted by NoGimmicksNeeded

I know exactly how you feel. Every year I'll have a conversation around October which will be the first time I'll find out about a summer transfer, whereas ten years ago I could have laid out every top flight move that year and most of the Championship signings, too.

The problem with the boycott thing, at the big clubs anyway, is that those tickets will sell. Say Liverpool started asking £70 a ticket for the United game; even if every season ticket holder refused, they'd still sell a ton on general sale. When you start factoring in all the other away costs, it's just too much. The fans that come to Old Trafford every two weeks from London, Ireland etc have respect from me - the love you have to have for a club to do that consistently is admirable, people who haven't attended matches don't see the effort it takes.

The end of last season probably would have crushed me when I was younger, but the same evening I was in the pub joking about it with a blue mate. I can't envisage a time I'm not watching United games but the investment I have seems to be diminishing over time. Everything seems so serious now.

Good work supporting FC man, I've heard great things about the club. Fantastic supporter's atmosphere apparently.

Aye I'm much the same. Everything feels so forced and manufactured now. Clubs try to stifle and control their fans into fitting their ideals and the whole thing just feels lacking in any passion. Most of the people you see on an average matchday barely look arsed and are either there because they've got nowt else on or just because 'its popular to follow football'. Does my head in tbh.

Ha, I was much the same at the end of last season. Was gutted for a good hour but aside from having final Uni exams to also revise for I just took it on the chin and had to accept we threw it away in the final games and just settled on turning it around next season. Too much in life to get perpetually frustrated and inconsolable after one game.

FC is a really unique and great model. Evolved from a purely 'lad' support into a mix of lads, families, men and women. All of 'em have a good time and get into the spirit of the game and its a great advert that families can sing/stand and actively contribute to an atmosphere, rather than just sitting in silence all game like a top flight game would have you believe. Its cheap, the fans are sound, mates are all there. Its pretty much perfection. Win/Lose/Draw there's always a laugh to be had and the fans just accept the team is there to be supported, not heckled, abused or forgotten when times are rough. If it weren't for them I'd probably be at OT Cricket Ground watching Lancashire/England.

[NoGimmicksNeeded]

It's strange, I've got relatives that have been going to matches for 40 years, and now are at the stage where some mornings they'll just decide to give it a miss. It feels like the same club, but like the environments completely changed, I guess. Dread to think how it'll feel once Ferguson's gone.

It'd be refreshing to watch, and care about, a club where the important thing is the social aspect. Not which multi-millionaire player is signing/leaving/whatever, not which foreign owner spent the most money that window, not which steward can tell you to sit down quickest (assuming there's not too many of you/you're a fan of a traditional 'hard' club), and so on. Just having a laugh regardless of the result. Sounds like a pipedream as far as top flight football goes!

Looking at the German and English top flights, the gulf in how the game is fundamentally run is staggering.

[WOOLCOCK]

Originally Posted by NoGimmicksNeeded

It's strange, I've got relatives that have been going to matches for 40 years, and now are at the stage where some mornings they'll just decide to give it a miss. It feels like the same club, but like the environments completely changed, I guess. Dread to think how it'll feel once Ferguson's gone.

It'd be refreshing to watch, and care about, a club where the important thing is the social aspect. Not which multi-millionaire player is signing/leaving/whatever, not which foreign owner spent the most money that window, not which steward can tell you to sit down quickest (assuming there's not too many of you/you're a fan of a traditional 'hard' club), and so on. Just having a laugh regardless of the result. Sounds like a pipedream as far as top flight football goes!

Looking at the German and English top flights, the gulf in how the game is fundamentally run is staggering.

Yep, it is weird but I know loads at various clubs who are either just continuing to go because its all they've grown up with or who are just using it to drink and have a laugh with their mates. Clubs these days are so focused on the business and PR aspect they're slowly alienating a generation of supporters who just want to have a bit of freedom and enjoy their football. They get enough rules and regulations in work and education, football should be the time and place where a gentleman can spend his saturday afternoons calling a referee a cunt and then go back to his job without uttering so much as a 'good god'.

That second paragraph is really what its all about mate. I went to a game and payed the full adult fare despite of £7 despite there being an available student concession for £2, the old woman on the turnstile actually thanked me and asked if it wasn't too much for me. Bless her soul. Its just a completely relaxed and almost unheard of attitude these days and it ensures you'd do well to actuall have a disappointing day. Plus I won't ever tire of switching ends at half time whenever they play at Stalybridge if Gigg Lane is out of commission. Seeing under 100 away fans going for a drink/piss and returning to find 1000s of FC in the end they were just in because they're attacking that end second half and having to move always cracks me up.

Germany is almost like a paradise. You can drink in full view of the pitch, clear segregation with everyone's wishes catered to, the clubs actually go out of their way to assist and support their fans in their actions and there's a strong community spirit and belief in ensuring the spirit and ethics of the game aren't tampered with.

[ROUSEY]

Originally Posted by Destiny

Makes me sad that we are far from fourth.

Typical Kopite bellend

[NoGimmicksNeeded]

Originally Posted by WOOLCOCK

Yep, it is weird but I know loads at various clubs who are either just continuing to go because its all they've grown up with or who are just using it to drink and have a laugh with their mates. Clubs these days are so focused on the business and PR aspect they're slowly alienating a generation of supporters who just want to have a bit of freedom and enjoy their football. They get enough rules and regulations in work and education, football should be the time and place where a gentleman can spend his saturday afternoons calling a referee a cunt and then go back to his job without uttering so much as a 'good god'.

That second paragraph is really what its all about mate. I went to a game and payed the full adult fare despite of £7 despite there being an available student concession for £2, the old woman on the turnstile actually thanked me and asked if it wasn't too much for me. Bless her soul. Its just a completely relaxed and almost unheard of attitude these days and it ensures you'd do well to actuall have a disappointing day. Plus I won't ever tire of switching ends at half time whenever they play at Stalybridge if Gigg Lane is out of commission. Seeing under 100 away fans going for a drink/piss and returning to find 1000s of FC in the end they were just in because they're attacking that end second half and having to move always cracks me up.

Germany is almost like a paradise. You can drink in full view of the pitch, clear segregation with everyone's wishes catered to, the clubs actually go out of their way to assist and support their fans in their actions and there's a strong community spirit and belief in ensuring the spirit and ethics of the game aren't tampered with.

Man, that description actually sounds like going to a football game, not a Sky Presents: Barclays English Premier League match in association with blah blah blah... definitely going next time I'm visiting relatives up there, I'll give you a shout when I'm around and see if you're heading there too.

German football is almost unique in having a top flight league that protects the fans interests, which is sad. When you look at the price you'd pay to go and see a top Bundesliga club vs the amount you'd pay to see Arsenal, City, Chelsea, United.. it's not like the football itself justifies the gap. Actually considered Germany as a holiday destination the last few years just to catch a game or two and feel like I've enjoyed a day out at a match.

[DwayneAustin]

Originally Posted by ROUSEY

Typical Kopite bellend

Jelavic showing off Everton's number of European Cups

[WOOLCOCK]

Sweet mate, definitely drop us a message if you're ever heading up and I'll do my best to show my face.

The German model really is just beautiful. When legislators tabled a motion which many thought would threaten standing (in hindsight it focused more on health and safety and mere regulations irrelevant to standing and prices) for December 12th, supports around Germany staged walkouts or silences up until the 12th minute and 12th second of the game. Dortmund for example actually helped with hiring volunteers to assist their fans in organising their action and even let them into the ground in the afternoon to plan their display. You just wouldn't get that sort of freedom or assistance from an English club (certainly not a top flight club) because the people in charge are now set on giving the fans what they think they want, whilst remaining oblivious to just how out of touch they are with the average working class fan.

German football really is just an invitation to have a beer or ten, have a laugh and take part in a long lasting experience. The English motto might as well be 'sit down, shut up, give us yer money and come back next year' for all the support and respect they extend to the fans.

[NoGimmicksNeeded]

The English game seems to be all about monetising passion now, and in the long run that'll be the exact thing that kills off the true fans. Imagine a league where every game is like Wembley, empty seats until the 55th minute because of the complimentary half time champage and h'ors d'oeuvre. The controversy over Arsenal's ticket prices on the weekend was much needed, but you know the top teams aren't going to be reducing what they charge any time soon.

Still, getting to watch a player with the quality of Van Persie playing for your team every week - it ain't all bad.

[WOOLCOCK]

Originally Posted by NoGimmicksNeeded

The English game seems to be all about monetising passion now, and in the long run that'll be the exact thing that kills off the true fans. Imagine a league where every game is like Wembley, empty seats until the 55th minute because of the complimentary half time champage and h'ors d'oeuvre. The controversy over Arsenal's ticket prices on the weekend was much needed, but you know the top teams aren't going to be reducing what they charge any time soon.

Still, getting to watch a player with the quality of Van Persie playing for your team every week - it ain't all bad.

I really can forsee more clubs forming in the model of FCUM and AFC Wimbledon in years to come. I know there's been talk between fans of a few clubs about breaking away, setting up a small non league club and just sacking off all the hassle and control that comes with being a premier league support. Don't get me started on some of the people who come to games. Leaving on 75 mins, staying in the hospitality area well into the second half, on their phones all game, barely rising out of their seat for a goal etc. Jesus christ. The top teams will very likely never drop their prices, mainly because the FA have the bollocks and resolve of a child and will happily remain mute on any discussion so long as the money keeps coming in and interest in football remains at an all time high.

They've moved on years ago from the hardcore fans. Today's generation is all about attracting the yuppies as Del Boy would call 'em. All money and no sense. Happy to pay mickey mouse prices because they haven't any perspective on what constitutes a fair price and have the money to pay whatever they're asked. In return they'll do as they're told, raid the club store for merchandise and provide a warm dependable seat for the club to make money off of year on year.

I suppose so long as you have mates you can still make the most of a day, at least that's my motto anyway.