2012-13 English Premier League/Cups Thread - GAME OVER YEEEAAAHHH!!!!!!! - Page 256 - Wrestling Forum : WWE, TNA, ROH, Wrestling Videos, Women of Wrestling Forums
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Old 12-11-2012, 01:28 PM   #2551 (permalink)
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Default Re: 2012-13 English Premier League/Cups Thread - Van Persieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

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Originally Posted by Silent Alarm View Post
Obviously, but if you're on the other end of it then you're gonna be pissed off. It's normal if Fergie and the players want to smash Sunderland now.

Same with the fans, I'm sure Sunderland are top of a lot of United fans wishlist for relegation this season. They're second in mine, just behind QPR, even though they have Park and Fabio.
Can definitely understand wanting to see QPR go down. The team literally stopped giving a shit when they learned Bolton did not win and the fans were cheering for the City goals and then the players were hugging City players after the game.

I just don't really see whar Sunderland did wrong. I mean you guys were half celebrating that you won the league. Then you were in shock to hear the City winner. Then the Sunderland laughs came. Doesn't seem like Sunderland overdid it.

Well that's how I think events went. If they were cheering for City throughout the match then fair enough, I can see why United would be pissed off.

I dunno. Maybe I'm just hating.
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Old 12-11-2012, 01:38 PM   #2552 (permalink)
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Default Re: 2012-13 English Premier League/Cups Thread - Van Persieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

Personally speaking I don't see what Sunderland fans did that any other fans wouldn't have done in the exact same situation. I mean I appreciate why United fans at the time would be pissed off, losing the title on the last day of the season to your local and most personal rivals would hurt enough without some Mackems taunting you across the divide.

That being said its banter and English football is based on taunting and winding up the opposition. You get this in North/South games, Welsh teams vs English teams, Premier League teams vs lower league opponents in the cups etc. I mean United fans were joining in chants with Hull fans on the last day of the 08/09 season and taking great pleasure in Newcastle being relegated. Villa fans despite having no real personal rivalry where doing their best to taunt and ridicule the Geordies on the last day and took great delight in sending them down.

That being said Sunderland fans do notoriously have a weird obsession with 'getting one over' on United fans. They're one of the few teams to have sang You'll Never Walk Alone at Old Trafford to try and get a stir out of United fans. Personally speaking I've never found the wit in singing another teams' anthem, especially given Sunderland will heckle and abuse Liverpool fans whenever they play them in a season, so it comes off rather cringey.

United fans would have done the exact same though if Sunderland were relegated on the last day by virtue of another result.
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Old 12-11-2012, 01:42 PM   #2553 (permalink)
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Default Re: 2012-13 English Premier League/Cups Thread - Van Persieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

One thing I don't understand about the whole "Standing" debate is that how can you allow standing at gig/concerts where you often see people at the very front squished against the barricade's for the duration of the show and depending on what type of gig you are at then most pits as well but not allow standing in football grounds where the only real movement is when there's a goal scored.

Yeah Hillsborough was a tragic event but one that could been avoided if it wasn't for Human Error/Bad Policing
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Old 12-11-2012, 01:54 PM   #2554 (permalink)
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Default Re: 2012-13 English Premier League/Cups Thread - Van Persieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

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One thing I don't understand about the whole "Standing" debate is that how can you allow standing at gig/concerts where you often see people at the very front squished against the barricade's for the duration of the show and depending on what type of gig you are at then most pits as well but not allow standing in football grounds where the only real movement is when there's a goal scored.

Yeah Hillsborough was a tragic event but one that could been avoided if it wasn't for Human Error/Bad Policing
Yup, it is a fascinating hypocricy and gets worse when you factor in the alcohol and drugs that a lot of people at a music gig are on as well as the design meaning moshing is common and easy to have someone potentially trampled on.

It all stems from football fans and their reputation which puts them on a pedastal of 'high risk behaviour' compared to other sports. Police and politicians have a terribly biased and pre-conceived belief of what your average football fan is like and far too many tar the majority with the same brush associated with a minority.

The Hillsborough argument is just a very lazy argument. I'm not saying she shouldn't be entitled to not want standing, but she can't be allowed to present her claims when they have no depth or basis to them aside from 'its disrespectful to the memory of my dead son'. Any debate should range on whether current areas can be converted to these rail seat models (they can), whether there is a satisfactory belief the current measures and surveillance will mean any talk of hooliganism returing is foolish (there is) and whether there exists demand for the measure (there does).

Its just disheartening to hear people from the FSF and fans in general speak openly and honestly and make well reasoned arguments that logically make more sense and counter any opposing view from those opposed to safe standing..only to see their well reasoned arguments be invalidated by statements such as 'its disrespectful to the 96 and their memory' which obviously connect with your casual listener on a more personal basis despite having no relevance to the discussion. If Aspinall actually made well argued points backing her opinion I wouldn't be so critical of her, but the fact is she relies on these general Hillsborough statements to rubbish safe standing in spite of the well made reasons for implenting the scheme.
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Old 12-11-2012, 01:57 PM   #2555 (permalink)
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Default Re: 2012-13 English Premier League/Cups Thread - Van Persieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

Quote:
Originally Posted by danny_boy View Post
One thing I don't understand about the whole "Standing" debate is that how can you allow standing at gig/concerts where you often see people at the very front squished against the barricade's for the duration of the show and depending on what type of gig you are at then most pits as well but not allow standing in football grounds where the only real movement is when there's a goal scored.

Yeah Hillsborough was a tragic event but one that could been avoided if it wasn't for Human Error/Bad Policing
Exactly. I said about a month ago how ridiculous is that you can stand at football stadiums for gigs but can't for matches. It's disgusting.

Clubs won't want to remove seated areas and may for new standing areas to be brought in, no chance. That's the main issue now unless safety's a concern at lower league grounds who have terracing, which it clearly isn't. People need to get off their high horse about Hillsborough. It wasn't caused by terracing, poor organisation & overcrowding, as simple as that.
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Old 12-11-2012, 02:09 PM   #2556 (permalink)
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Default Re: 2012-13 English Premier League/Cups Thread - Van Persieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

Agree w/ Segunda, got no ill will against Sunderland fans (for that incident), would quite happily watch QPR get smashed every week.

The standing terrace debate is clearly one decided by emotion, properly regulated and controlled there is no problem with having a standing area. Look at how well it works in Germany.
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Old 12-11-2012, 02:18 PM   #2557 (permalink)
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Default Re: 2012-13 English Premier League/Cups Thread - Van Persieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

It should be noted as well that most German models don't even remove the seats. They bolt them down for league matches, and have the crush barriers in place to allow for more room in each row and prevent crushing (as explained in the article AndreBaker linked) and then un-bolt them for International and European matches where UEFA/FIFA regulations require the seats to be in place (though it doesn't affect the level of standing).



A handy video explaining rail seats and the Safe Standing debate.



Fan made independent documentary. Gives you a good idea about how popular it is, why fans believe the authorities/police don't want it to happen and even allows you to see it from a police officer's perspective.



Includes a discussion with a Dortmund supporter and gives you their argument on the whole debate.



An overview of the German model.


Should point out its not traditional 'terracing' that's being asked for. In many ways its simply converting current areas into rail seat areas, i.e placing crush barriers as opposed to removing the seats. Many engineers and architechts have gone on record that it can be done in a cost effective manner and that many of the more modern stadiums are convertible.
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Old 12-11-2012, 02:28 PM   #2558 (permalink)
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Default Re: 2012-13 English Premier League/Cups Thread - Van Persieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

GERVINHO!



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Old 12-11-2012, 02:29 PM   #2559 (permalink)
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Default Re: 2012-13 English Premier League/Cups Thread - Van Persieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

Gervinho provides endless laughter.
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Old 12-11-2012, 02:30 PM   #2560 (permalink)
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Default Re: 2012-13 English Premier League/Cups Thread - Van Persieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

Gervinho is probably the worst player I've seen in an Arsenal shirt
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