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Old 02-15-2013, 12:13 PM   #5691 (permalink)
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Default Re: D-GOD or D-DEVIL? #BAHGAWD #COUNTONKOBE

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Originally Posted by Champ View Post
magic, at the end of the day it comes down to what both bring to the table on both ends. lbj has always done more, and should rightfully be recognized as the better player when his career is said and done regardless of rings.
at both ends? Kobe is one of the greatest defensive guards of all time and for his career actually did earn most of those all defensive team awards until slowing down a lot in around 2010, so I don't your point about that. Can he guard all 5 positions? No, of course not, but that has more to do with his physical limitations than it does his actual talents.

Is Lebron a better playmaker? Perhaps, but Kobe has never been a bad one. He's always had the ability to pass and create for others and has proven that at various points in his career. He's average 2-3 less assists per game throughout his career than Lebron has, but has also never actually been asked to be the playmaker until this year since he played in actual system rather than Lebron ball for 48 minutes.

idc much for rebounding as Kobe is a guard and Lebron is a big for his team that is daft of good rebounders compared to the Lakers who have had at least one, usually more than one, player who averages 10+ rebounds throughout his whole career and that hasn't stopped him for maintaining an average of around 5 boards per game which is once again rather good for the guard position.

So tell me champ, why exactly does Lebron deserve to be recognized as the greater player? because he's been more efficient at being bigger, stronger, and faster than his competition while Kobe has learned to outplay them through other means? There is still no player in the NBA that can stop Kobe one on one and it's not because he can post them up and out power them, it's because of his footwork, touch, and ability to finish ridiculous shots, something that he has worked throughout his whole career to perfect while Lebron took 9 years to realize that he can simply outpower every other player in the NBA. If you're going to say Lebron, after one ring,is better than one of the all time greats, then at least back it up with something more than "he's always done more" when Kobe has always done more in his career with less physical and athletical ability; something Lebron and Jordan never had to worry about.
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Old 02-15-2013, 01:41 PM   #5692 (permalink)
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Default Re: D-GOD or D-DEVIL? #BAHGAWD #COUNTONKOBE

Arguing with Magic against Kobe is pointless. Don't know why I even bothered. It's like trying to argue with me against KG or trying to argue with Flex against Rose. Pointless to argue against a stan of a certain player.

Anyway, in some lighter news...the HOF finalists for the 2013 class have been announced. Finalists are:\
Gary Payton
Tim Hardaway
Mitch Richmond
Tommy Heinsohn
Maurice Cheeks
Bernard King
Spencer Haywood
Guy Lewis
Rick Pitino
Jerry Tarkanian
Sylvia Hatchell
Dawn Staley


Surprising that Heinsohn's on the list as I thought he was already in the Hall. But whatever, THAT'S A TOMMY POINT
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Old 02-15-2013, 02:02 PM   #5693 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Aid180 View Post
If Rose is truly going to take the rest of the year off, then Noah and Deng should go get their surgeries and the Bulls should tank and get a good pick. Let the team come back stronger next year and let guys like Gibson, Teague, and Butler get better with extended playing time.

If Rose does comeback, then let the team go full throttle and win the championship.
I agree, the team has been working their asses off to stay afloat in his absence & his return being pushed back was smh worthy.

If he does sit the year out i agree Noah & Deng should get their surgeries & come back at full strength to make a run for the championship.

But i don't think he will, i still think he'll be back this season.

At least i hope he will.
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Old 02-15-2013, 02:02 PM   #5694 (permalink)
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Default Re: D-GOD or D-DEVIL? #BAHGAWD #COUNTONKOBE

I know I'm a homer for Kobe, but this really has nothing to do with it. I don't think Lebron is all time better than Kobe and I don't think he's close, at least not yet, and I don't think it's fair to say he is simply based off the amount of MVPs the guy has, especially since it can be argued Kobe could/should have more and had the prime of his career not been wasted on the worst teams of his career, he probably would have more.

Lebron, like he has throughout his whole career, is once again being over-hyped, the simple fact people are once again saying that the Heat are a lock to win the championship pretty much proves my point when that's far from the fact unless Lebron plans to score 30+ while shooting 60%+ during the whole playoffs which won't be happening. The Heat, like the rest of the contenders, of their fair share of problems and just because they have the Thunder's number doesn't mean the same can be said for the rest of the contenders.
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Old 02-15-2013, 02:11 PM   #5695 (permalink)
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Default Re: D-GOD or D-DEVIL? #BAHGAWD #COUNTONKOBE

I never said LeBron was currently better than Kobe. I said if LeBron wins another MVP, wins another ring and gets another Finals MVP then me personally, I'd put him ahead of Kobe. You say Kobe would have more MVP's if he didn't have to play on terrible teams at his peak, I can also say LeBron would have more rings if he got to play with peak Shaq for the first 8 years of his career.

How is LeBron being overhyped? He is damn great right now and is by far the best player in the NBA. And it isn't even close. He's killing the league and the guy is coasting. He's coasting! I used to be on the LeBron ain't all the good, Heat aren't the favorites shit too but time to face the truth. The Heat are the top dogs right now and while they aren't locks for anything, they are clearly the frontrunners. It's been proven that in the playoffs no one can stop LeBron, except for himself. And those confidence issues are more than likely in the past now. Wade after getting off to a slow start, is starting to play great and Bosh has always been a consistent player. They have some good role players in Ray, Battier, Haslem & Chalmers, all of which, especially Ray & Chalmers aren't afraid to step up in clutch moments.

Magic stop. LOL at "just because they have the Thunder's number doesn't mean the same can be said for the rest of the contenders." As if the Thunder aren't better than every other contender.
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Old 02-15-2013, 02:18 PM   #5696 (permalink)
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Default Re: D-GOD or D-DEVIL? #BAHGAWD #COUNTONKOBE

Peak wise, Bron is better. I would've probably said the same thing back in 09 tho and this Bron is even better than the 09 one even if the stats aren't as high (more mature, better off-ball, can play better within a team concept etc)

Career wise, he needs to sustain this level of play for a couple of years and prove himself in the playoffs more often since he's had some suspect performances over the years. Its about the overall longevity as well since he doesn't have as many elite years as Kobe has yet.

That said, if he wins MVP this year + 2 more championships combined with elite playoff runs, its inevitable. Its not just Kobe tho, he's going to move past all the 90s and on guys as well with the except of MJ (not familiar with Bird, Wilt, ...sell etc so don't rank them).
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Old 02-15-2013, 02:19 PM   #5697 (permalink)
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Default Re: D-GOD or D-DEVIL? #BAHGAWD #COUNTONKOBE

^^See, that is something I can agree with. This has nothing to do with me being a homer, this is about people overreacting to every single fucking thing that happens in Lebron's career which becomes redundant and annoying. I'm not denying Lebron's claim at best in the world, but to say he's vaulting people because one great postseason and possibly another is absurd when the all time greats have had many.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Notorious View Post
I never said LeBron was currently better than Kobe. I said if LeBron wins another MVP, wins another ring and gets another Finals MVP then me personally, I'd put him ahead of Kobe. You say Kobe would have more MVP's if he didn't have to play on terrible teams at his peak, I can also say LeBron would have more rings if he got to play with peak Shaq for the first 8 years of his career.

How is LeBron being overhyped? He is damn great right now and is by far the best player in the NBA. And it isn't even close. He's killing the league and the guy is coasting. He's coasting! I used to be on the LeBron ain't all the good, Heat aren't the favorites shit too but time to face the truth. The Heat are the top dogs right now and while they aren't locks for anything, they are clearly the frontrunners. It's been proven that in the playoffs no one can stop LeBron, except for himself. And those confidence issues are more than likely in the past now. Wade after getting off to a slow start, is starting to play great and Bosh has always been a consistent player. They have some good role players in Ray, Battier, Haslem & Chalmers, all of which, especially Ray & Chalmers aren't afraid to step up in clutch moments.

Magic stop. LOL at "just because they have the Thunder's number doesn't mean the same can be said for the rest of the contenders." As if the Thunder aren't better than every other contender.
He's overhyped because he's once again being compared in the same dominant breath as Jordan, I don't disagree with his standing in the NBA currently, but the all time shit is laughable imo. He's also not coasting, don't be ridiculous, this exactly the shit I'm talking about. Do you think he can honestly somehow play better than this.

And they're the top dogs for now, I'm sure your opinion will change in a month like it always does. It wasn't even that long ago you were talking about their flaws, which are still very much present but at the moment not as obvious due to Lebron dominating. The Heat, defensively, still have major problems and unless Lebron plans to guard every opposing player those problems won't magically disappear nor will their lack of quality big men.

Are the Thunder better than Spurs? inb4 you call the Spurs chokers again. Spurs, with their depth and team styled play could very well beat the Heat in a 7 game series. There's also the Pacers which give the Heat a boatload of problesm every time they play. Calling any team a lock to win a championship in any year is moronic in every single way in any given sport, there's a reason the championship isn't awarded at the end of the regular season so I recommend you stop...which you eventually will once Heat hit a slump and your opinion takes another 180.
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Old 02-15-2013, 02:27 PM   #5698 (permalink)
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Default Re: D-GOD or D-DEVIL? #BAHGAWD #COUNTONKOBE

So was Kobe overhyped too when he was being compared to Jordan while leading the Lakers to 1st round exits every year during the mid 2000's? Or does that only apply to LeBron? LeBron is coasting for the most part. He clearly is going all-out and playing with the same intensity he's played with in the playoffs in recent years.

I never said the Heat didn't have flaws...

The Spurs are a regular season team. That's why they are. The Spurs over the last couple years are just like the Patriots. Dominate the regular season but fall short in the playoffs. They lost the 8th seeded Grizzlies in 2011, they won 20 games in a row and then choked their 2-0 lead away and proceed to be backdoor swept out of the playoffs against OKC. Only reason you're not calling it choking is because you like the Spurs. But I'm sure if it was the Heat you'd be singing a different tune. The Spurs are a better regular season team than the Thunder. But I don't see the Spurs beating the Thunder in the playoffs, just like I don't see the Spurs beating Miami in the playoffs. Can the Pacers even beat the Knicks in the playoffs, let alone the Heat? I like the Pacers a lot but I'm not gonna be blind. They play elite defense but they're pretty inept offensively and who knows when Granger will be back and what his level of play will be after missing so much time.

Once again, the Heat aren't locks for anything. But they are pretty clearly the favorites and the frontrunners. And I'm sure you aren't that blind and biased to deny that.

And people over-exaggerate with LeBron's playoff play. Other than against the Mavs in 2011 and the last few games against Boston in 2010, LeBron has always had great playoff performances. Of course you have the Spurs in 07 but the Cavs were clearly vastly out-matched and LeBron was the only person the Spurs focused on defending. Not many guys would've been that successful going 1 on 5 with an elite defense like San Antonio's. The fact that LeBron led a team that bad to the Finals is enough of an accomplishment.
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Old 02-15-2013, 02:43 PM   #5699 (permalink)
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Default Re: D-GOD or D-DEVIL? #BAHGAWD #COUNTONKOBE

That 08 series vs Boston was pretty bad Notorious with the exception of G5 and G7 although Pierce was pretty much matching him shot for shot. Kobe played a bit better if you compare their series. He was the better player back in 08 tho.
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Old 02-15-2013, 02:48 PM   #5700 (permalink)
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Default Re: D-GOD or D-DEVIL? #BAHGAWD #COUNTONKOBE

Idk, they both played bad against Boston that year.

LeBron: 26.7 PPG on 36/23/76 shooting, 7.6 APG, 6.4 RPG, 2.1 SPG, 1.3 BPG, 5.3 TO, team loses in 7
Kobe: 25.7 PPG on 41/32/80 shooting, 5.0 APG, 4.7 RPG, 2.7 SPG, 0.2 BPG, 3.8 TO, team loses in 6

It's pretty much a wash.

But still I don't see why Magic holds it against LeBron so much that he's had bad playoff series when Kobe's had just as many, if not more.
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