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Old 01-01-2013, 09:29 PM   #5811 (permalink)
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Default re: NFL Thread: RAVENS SUPER BOWL CHAMPIONS

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Originally Posted by Showtime View Post
Brees won the superbowl, but there is no head to head. Your defense outplayed Manning, not Brees. That's why when people always refer to Eli as "Brady Killer" or something stupid like that I always find it ridiculous because it was the defense that was holding him down, not Eli.
Brees did not outplay Manning in the Superbowl? Tying the record for most completions in Superbowl history? An 82% completion percentage? No turnovers? I get where you're coming from, but head to head Brees outperformed Manning on the big stage. If you don't like "outperformed" I'll change it to "played better than". I know that's not exactly a huge accomplishment given Manning's mediocre playoff history.

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Manning played literally a series in the last game I believe and our team was up against the Jets before we sat Manning.
18 passes and a pick on 1 series? God damn.

Brees didn't even play in our last game. Not that it has anything to do with who deserved MVP because team records should have no bearing in "best individual player" awards. For instance, I couldn't care less if Peterson ran for 2,000 yards on a 4-12 team or a 16-0 team. The fact of the matter is that he was head and shoulders the best player in football this past season.

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Collins wasn't the major reason that Titans were winning, unlike Manning and Brees the following year, which makes the point completely irrelevant.
But the fact remains that Collins was closer to going 16-0 than Manning was. Brees was a huge part of the Saints being 13-0 until the Dallas game, and statistically outperformed Manning in every passing category with the exception of yards. You know, better completion percentage*, QB rating, YPA, more TD's (on less attempts, indicating far more proficiency), less INT's, etc.

* denotes 28 year old NFL record

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Our team played better and therefore Manning won, that's all that matters so I don't care whether or not Brees outperformed.
So you concede your team - let me repeat that for you - so you concede that your TEAM played better and Manning was the winning quarterback of said team thus deserves MVP, yet you don't apply that same logic to Kerry Collins. Okay.

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You guys put up the most points because you guys short field repeatedly due to the Saints also leading the league in turnovers, give elite QBs a short field and they tend to score a lot of points. Just ask Brady.
Turnovers don't automatically mean short field. So why is it that the Saints also had more yards that season, more offensive plays, and ranked first in total yards (6,461) compared to the Colts being 9th (5,809) despite only having 45 more offensive plays? Oh, I know, the Colts would have averaged 14 yards per play on those 45 more plays with the almighty Manning leading the helm?

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Your argument is trash and you really have no good points. Could the award have gone to Brees that year? Yeah, sure, pretty sure it was rather close in voting too. Did it? No, mostly because Colts were the better regular season team. Get over it. Or was it just because of another CONSPIRACY against the Saints? lolololol.
I'm still waiting for you to debate it with the same logic you apply to the 16-0 nonsense. If you're going to make a point, stick to it. Don't selectively apply it to you OMG fav plyr whenever you feel like it and then say it's irrelevant when used against such dipshit logic.

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Old 01-01-2013, 09:39 PM   #5812 (permalink)
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Default re: NFL Thread: RAVENS SUPER BOWL CHAMPIONS

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Old 01-01-2013, 09:41 PM   #5813 (permalink)
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Default re: NFL Thread: RAVENS SUPER BOWL CHAMPIONS

Am I really witnessing a argument over something that happened 3 years ago?
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Old 01-01-2013, 09:44 PM   #5814 (permalink)
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Default re: NFL Thread: RAVENS SUPER BOWL CHAMPIONS

lol.
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Old 01-01-2013, 09:50 PM   #5815 (permalink)
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Default re: NFL Thread: RAVENS SUPER BOWL CHAMPIONS

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Originally Posted by Glass Shatters View Post
Brees did not outplay Manning in the Superbowl? Tying the record for most completions in Superbowl history? An 82% completion percentage? No turnovers? I get where you're coming from, but head to head Brees outperformed Manning on the big stage. If you don't like "outperformed" I'll change it to "played better than". I know that's not exactly a huge accomplishment given Manning's mediocre playoff history.


18 passes and a pick on 1 series? God damn.

Brees didn't even play in our last game. Not that it has anything to do with who deserved MVP because team records should have no bearing in "best individual player" awards. For instance, I couldn't care less if Peterson ran for 2,000 yards on a 4-12 team or a 16-0 team. The fact of the matter is that he was head and shoulders the best player in football this past season.


But the fact remains that Collins was closer to going 16-0 than Manning was. Brees was a huge part of the Saints being 13-0 until the Dallas game, and statistically outperformed Manning in every passing category with the exception of yards. You know, better completion percentage*, QB rating, YPA, more TD's (on less attempts, indicating far more proficiency), less INT's, etc.

* denotes 28 year old NFL record


So you concede your team - let me repeat that for you - so you concede that your TEAM played better and Manning was the winning quarterback of said team thus deserves MVP, yet you don't apply that same logic to Kerry Collins. Okay.


Turnovers don't automatically mean short field. So why is it that the Saints also had more yards that season, more offensive plays, and ranked first in total yards (6,461) compared to the Colts being 9th (5,809) despite only having 45 more offensive plays? Oh, I know, the Colts would have averaged 14 yards per play on those 45 more plays with the almighty Manning leading the helm?

I'm still waiting for you to debate it with the same logic you apply to the 16-0 nonsense. If you're going to make a point, stick to it. Don't selectively apply it to you OMG fav plyr whenever you feel like it and then say it's irrelevant when used against such dipshit logic.
I worded that wrong, Brees did outplay Manning but Manning didn't play badly due to Brees nor did Brees affect his performance in any way. It was your defense.

Ah, I'm thinking of a different year then, but we weren't going to lose to the Bills of all teams in that year had Manning completed the game.

Umm, MVP has a lot to do with a team's record. It's not an individual award nor does MVP stand for "Most Outstanding Player", which is what you're trying to argue here. It stands for Most Valuable, and Manning was more valuable than Brees that year. Once again, unlike the Saints, Manning completely carried our team, bad defense and all. Brees had one of the better defenses in the league that year, I believe they gave up quite a bit of yards like they do every year, but they forced around 39 turnovers I believe. That's impressive and that's what lead to Brees higher TDs in fewer attempts. Field position means a lot in football and the Saints' defense gave that to Brees.

He statistically outperformed, but didn't win more games than him. Once again, that stat means more than anything and a team's record does play a big part in who wins the MVP. If you're not winning then that means your value clearly doesn't mean all that much to your team, which is why AD shouldn't have won the award this year had the Vikings not made the playoffs.

The TEAM was carried by Manning. Collins' value to the team and Manning's value to the team are not comparable. Why you're even trying to include this in the argument is beyond me, the two players are hardly comparable.

Saints had more total yards? That's great, the Colts had more passing yards that year. Saints had a good rush offense that was ranked sixth in the league and could hold their own and keep teams honest. Indy's rush offense was ranked 32nd. They were dead last. Teams knew Manning was going to pass and that he was the only threat on offense and he still beat them, kind of like what AP did this year. Your points are awful as you don't realize that Brees had the BETTER team. Better in EVERY way, except maybe offensive lineup and wide receivers which are still comparable.

Your logic is the one that doesn't make sense. You can't bring in Collins into an argument about Brees and Manning when it comes to the value they added to their team and the amount of credit they deserve to their own team's winning. Brees and Manning obviously had a far greater impact than Collins did so that's why he shouldn't be included in the 16-0 argument. Like honestly, how don't you see this?
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Old 01-01-2013, 09:59 PM   #5816 (permalink)
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Default re: NFL Thread: RAVENS SUPER BOWL CHAMPIONS

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It's STACKS trolling Notorious. You should know his MO by now.
I even including the CM Punk gif
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Old 01-01-2013, 10:11 PM   #5817 (permalink)
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AFC East-Pats
AFC West-Broncos
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looking back at my preseason playoff picks. lol at me picking all the wc teams wrong. 7/8 on the division winners though, not bad.
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Old 01-01-2013, 10:15 PM   #5818 (permalink)
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Default re: NFL Thread: RAVENS SUPER BOWL CHAMPIONS

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Umm, MVP has a lot to do with a team's record. It's not an individual award nor does MVP stand for "Most Outstanding Player", which is what you're trying to argue here. It stands for Most Valuable, and Manning was more valuable than Brees that year.
Okay, based on what line of thinking? That the TEAM won more games?

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Once again, unlike the Saints, Manning completely carried our team, bad defense and all. Brees had one of the better defenses in the league that year, I believe they gave up quite a bit of yards like they do every year, but they forced around 39 turnovers I believe.
So your argument that Manning deserved it is that his team had more wins and he, more than anyone, is responsible for that. I'm not going to disagree with you, but can you really say that Brees, more than anyone, is responsible for the success of the Saints in 2009? Was Brees not of equal importance to the Saints as Manning and the Colts?

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That's impressive and that's what lead to Brees higher TDs in fewer attempts. Field position means a lot in football and the Saints' defense gave that to Brees.
Dude, I played football for 13 years, so I don't need your e-luctures on the importance of field position. I included the average of 14 yards per play on the WHOLE 46 more plays we ran hoping that you'd see how far fetched your "got more turnovers that means they got shorter field" stuff. Turnovers happen inside the other teams territory, too.

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He statistically outperformed, but didn't win more games than him.
So did the Colts lead the league in wins during all of Manning's MVP years? Again, applying logic selectively.

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Once again, that stat means more than anything and a team's record does play a big part in who wins the MVP. If you're not winning then that means your value clearly doesn't mean all that much to your team, which is why AD shouldn't have won the award this year had the Vikings not made the playoffs.
Barry Sanders says hi.

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The TEAM was carried by Manning. Collins' value to the team and Manning's value to the team are not comparable. Why you're even trying to include this in the argument is beyond me, the two players are hardly comparable.
Because you selectively apply logic.

"Manning deserves it over Brees because he was closer to 16-0."
"But Collins went 10-0 and was closer to 16-0 than Manning was during his 2008 MVP year. Does that mean Collins deserves MVP."
"No because Collins isn't as good as Manning is."

:westbrook

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Saints had more total yards? That's great, the Colts had more passing yards that year. Saints had a good rush offense that was ranked sixth in the league and could hold their own and keep teams honest. Indy's rush offense was ranked 32nd. They were dead last. Teams knew Manning was going to pass and that he was the only threat on offense and he still beat them, kind of like what AP did this year.
Colts had about 200 more passing yards on 60 more passing attempts (about 3 yards per attempt, way less efficient) but less YPA, TD's, and completion %. Indianapolis' rush offense was ranked last because they were 31st in the league in rushing attempts! You can't get yards if you don't run the ball.

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Your points are awful as you don't realize that Brees had the BETTER team. Better in EVERY way, except maybe offensive lineup and wide receivers which are still comparable.
So Manning had the better offensive lineup which he did far less with and didn't operate as efficiently as Brees did and this is why he deserved MVP. Read that again. He had the better offensive players, didn't do as much with them, but because the team won, Manning gets the credit. Okay.

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Your logic is the one that doesn't make sense. You can't bring in Collins into an argument about Brees and Manning when it comes to the value they added to their team and the amount of credit they deserve to their own team's winning. Brees and Manning obviously had a far greater impact than Collins did so that's why he shouldn't be included in the 16-0 argument. Like honestly, how don't you see this?
Your logic can't apply to selective players. You mentioned nothing about total value when first bringing up the "closer to 16-0" bullshit, so I shoved Kerry Collins in there to show you that team wins don't really mean anything. How are you going to determine value? More TD's? Less INT's? Better completion %? Oh, wait...

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Old 01-01-2013, 10:22 PM   #5819 (permalink)
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Default re: NFL Thread: RAVENS SUPER BOWL CHAMPIONS

I don't even care anymore. Manning won the MVP, it was completely deserved, and nothing will change that. Stats aren't everything man and winners don't decide MVP on stats alone and never will be and the amount of wins your team has will always be a big factor.
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Old 01-01-2013, 10:23 PM   #5820 (permalink)
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Default re: NFL Thread: RAVENS SUPER BOWL CHAMPIONS

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