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post #1471 of 9149 (permalink) Old 10-25-2012, 08:50 AM Thread Starter
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Re: UEFA Champions/Europa League 2012-13 Thread

Mancini is a proven flop in Europe. I think that's the point you are missing, Kiz. It maybe the club's only second time in Europe, but players like Aguero, Dzeko, Nasri, Kompany, Clichy, Silva, Balotelli, Garcia, Maicon, Kolo have tasted Champions League before they moved to City. Yaya and Tevez have actually won it. So it's not this completely new experience.

Problem is Mancini's tactics in Europe are terrible. Unlike in the Premier League, teams in Europe keep possession a lot. You can't just expect to turn up and blast them out of the water from the start. Especially teams with pedigree like Ajax. Mancini keep underestimating these teams. Don't even get me started on him switching to a back 3 with Clichy as a centre back and then just throwing on all his strikers and hoping for the best. How the hell is that managing a team? I'm sorry, but he's fucking awful and City need someone better.

His Serie A accomplishments came because Inter were the only big team that did not get busted therefore they could buy all the strong players and create an unrivalled squad in that league. And last year he nearly lost the Premier League with by far the best squad in the league. I get that City fans will always hold him dear to their heart, as he did deliver them their first league title in yonks. But he isn't any good. He's tactically inept.

You can blame the players all you want, but it's the manager's job to find out the issue and sort it. It's his job to motivate them and get them playing well. If you have all these superstars and they aren't playing well, then the manager is not doing his job.

If no miracle happens, City need to start looking for someone new for next season.
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post #1472 of 9149 (permalink) Old 10-25-2012, 08:51 AM
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Re: UEFA Champions/Europa League 2012-13 Thread

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Originally Posted by Razor King View Post
Onto City, sacking Mancini is the worst thing City could do now. So what if City aren't doing well in the CL! It took Chelsea 9 years after Papa Ramon came, so let's give City some time. Unless the replacement's name is Pep, Mancini is the right man for City.
In the past decade Chelsea has never been knocked out before the knockout stage, made one quarter final, four semi finals, two finals and won the title. With the squad they have City should at the very least be making it past the group stage. They don't have to win the thing every year, but some sort of positive showing is required. Either the manager is an issue or the players just don't want it enough - or both.

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post #1473 of 9149 (permalink) Old 10-25-2012, 09:01 AM
 
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Re: UEFA Champions/Europa League 2012-13 Thread

the fact is these things take time and we gain nothing by sacking bobby 5 months after signing him to a 5 year deal. unless pep comes in then it doesn't matter. this is a gradual process. it doesn't happen overnight.

and bullshit it's up to the manager to get the players to play well. if a player can't get up for a champions league match then maybe they should be looking at their career more closely and deciding what they want to be in the future. it's the easy way out to blame the manager every single time. bobby made a couple of tactical errors, but to just dish up pure crap on the field, no matter how you're playing, what can he do about that? tell the players to play better? i'm sure he did that.

yes he's made mistakes, yes he should be held accountable for said mistakes, but to be 100% his fault for his players not showing up in such a vital game? that reflects so much more on the players than him.

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post #1474 of 9149 (permalink) Old 10-25-2012, 09:36 AM Thread Starter
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Re: UEFA Champions/Europa League 2012-13 Thread

Well after scraping the league on the last day, that 5 years extension wasn't all that smart.

These players won the league last season and they went to the Bernabeu and put in a courageous performance, so they obviously are good players and ability isn't the problem. Should they need to be motivated for these games? No. But if it's not going right, the manager has to find a way to change this. You're telling me that things have gone wrong for the majoirty of City's Champions League games and Mancini has not found a way to change this yet?

Against Dortmund, you got played off the park in the first half, you thought half time would have changed this, but no. The match continued as it was. Same thing with Napoli last year. These two teams have been in the Champions League as long as you. So experience isn't the issue. In fact, your manager has more CL experience then both of them put together. The issue is two teams were doing the business tactically and one team was not.

You have Gael Clichy looking stunned when asked to play centre back. You have four strikers on the pitch at the same time as if this is Football Manager. You have Micah Richards (wrongly) coming out and saying the team don't really understand 3-5-2. And you have Mancini saying it was his fault. It's a embarrassing. You're the Premier League champions, ffs.

It's never fully one side's fault. So yeah, the players are to be blamed too. But when you look at the history of Mancini's Champipns League record, it's not hard to find out what the big issue it.
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post #1475 of 9149 (permalink) Old 10-25-2012, 09:49 AM
 
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Re: UEFA Champions/Europa League 2012-13 Thread

so you think we should sack a manager who just won the league and is still undefeated in the league?

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post #1476 of 9149 (permalink) Old 10-25-2012, 10:02 AM
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Re: UEFA Champions/Europa League 2012-13 Thread

Just watched a post-match interview with Mancini. He says he didn't prepare the team well, he didn't look at the Ajax players well enough beforehand, which I thought meant that he basically thought Ajax was going to be a walk over and didn't feel the need to even look at the Ajax players for threats. But then he got asked if he underestimated Ajax and he said no, they prepared wrong because they prepared for a different tactic by Ajax. To sum up; De Boer tactically surprised Mancini, and he couldn't prepare the damage. Baffling for such a big club with loads of scouts/coaches.

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post #1477 of 9149 (permalink) Old 10-25-2012, 10:06 AM
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Re: UEFA Champions/Europa League 2012-13 Thread

It's ridiculous to compare Mancini and Ferguson's champion's league exploits even when you consider relative experience. Mancini can buy pretty much any player he wants, if the players aren't playing well then either he's not motivating them correctly or they're just bad signings and need to be moved on or replaced. There's nothing stopping him from doing this. Fergie spent the best part of the 90's developing a good group of youth players mixed with some shrewed signings into a top class team, of course he wasn't going to be able to win the top club prize straight away.

If you want to make a fair comparison then use managers who have had the same amount of time (or even less) and availability of resources as Mancini. Roberto Di Matteo would be that person.

As for sacking Mancini, I don't think that's the right road to go down at this moment in time, he deserves at least the rest of this season after winning two trophies. I still think that he falls woefully short of the tactical requirements needed for Europe, so there will come a point where Citeh start to outgrow him. That may not be too far in the future.



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post #1478 of 9149 (permalink) Old 10-25-2012, 10:06 AM Thread Starter
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Re: UEFA Champions/Europa League 2012-13 Thread

As I said, I think you need to start looking for another manager who can come in next season and progress the club. Inter did it regardless of all the leagues Mancini won and they went on and won the Champions League. Financially, you won't be fucked like Inter as well.
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post #1479 of 9149 (permalink) Old 10-25-2012, 10:09 AM
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Re: UEFA Champions/Europa League 2012-13 Thread

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Originally Posted by Mr. Snrub View Post
it's way too easy to blame mancini for this. where's the blame for lescott not headering the ball away for their 2nd goal? that's not tactical ineptitude on bobby's part.
Zonal marking is hardly a clever tactic on his part tbf. The guy with a running start against a guy standing still is always gonna win that contest in the air if the ball is good.

Didn't watch the match but it looked like City would have lost even if Mancini's tactics were on. Defensively they're a shambles right now (just like us mind) and their midfield gets overrun in Europe. I really don't get the 3-5-2 formation with City and Mancini's inconsistency on it. Enjoying Micah burying it though. Now they're looking at Ajax at home as a must win match just for Europa League Football.

LEAVE IT UP TO UNITED TO FLY THE FLAG.

Watched Dortmund/Madrid. Madrid were lifeless again. Looked in pre-season mode again but it's too far into the season to be using that excuse anymore. Majority of the team don't look like they care right now. Should have been 2 or 3 goals difference if it wasn't for Casillas. Dortmund were very good though. I'd KILL for a Falcao/Lewandowski strike pair.

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post #1480 of 9149 (permalink) Old 10-25-2012, 10:10 AM
 
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Re: UEFA Champions/Europa League 2012-13 Thread

yeah they only replaced him with some mug named jose mourinho . the only way that this works is if we bring in someone better than mancini. how many of these guys exist, and furthermore, can we plausibly get them into the club? personally, i think any manager would love it here, great resources, a great board willing to invest both money and time into a plan. whether we're setting up a move for pep with serrano and possibly txiki, im not sure. but if that happens, so be it.

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