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post #3421 of 3775 (permalink) Old 10-14-2012, 03:24 PM
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Re: NBA Offseason Thread 2012

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Originally Posted by Ether View Post
MVP snubs since 1990:
10-11: Should have been Howard
07-08: Should have been CP3
05-06: Should have been Kobe
00-01: Should have been Shaq
96-97: Should have been MJ
94-95: Should have been Hakeem
92-93: Should have been Hakeem
89-90: Should have been Barkley/MJ

I think that's it, you can argue Shaq for 04-05 though
Disagree on Hakeem 95 and Kobe 06. Robinson pretty much deserved that MVP leading an average team to the best record in the L and he had better stats than Hakeem in the season. Hakeem missed 10 games and Rockets only managed to win 47 games. Its a reg. season award so you can't really put any emphasis on what happened in the playoffs. Same with Kobe in 06. You don't get the MVP on a 45 win team and 7th seed in a conference. Not really his fault and in the literal sense, he was the MVP since LA would've crashed without him to a greater degree than if any other team lost its star player but team success whether fair or unfair is weighted to a certain extent.

I agree on 2011 though. Dwight is my choice as well. More dominant than Rose, improved his game offensively that year and getting a mediocre Orlando team to 52 wins + a top 3 defense (Gortat was gone as a back up so that's another +) is a fine team achievement by itself. Rose was great and the best PG that year but he had a much better team with the backing of an elite team defense that he contributed little to(Bulls #1 DRtg, ORtg, #11) which was often what won them/kept them in games when Rose went cold.

Also, I'd add Kobe has a good argument for 08. Wouldn't really say Paul got snubbed and I like Paul way more than Bean.
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post #3422 of 3775 (permalink) Old 10-14-2012, 03:45 PM
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Re: NBA Offseason Thread 2012

Wade had a strong case in '09. Much weaker team than the winner LBJ and Kobe who somehow finished before Wade in 2nd which just turned me off to the whole NBA MVP thing ever since. Was never a big MVP guy anyway, in any sport. Finals MVPs to me mean much more anyway.

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post #3423 of 3775 (permalink) Old 10-14-2012, 03:56 PM
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Re: NBA Offseason Thread 2012

MVP is more prestigious than Finals MVP.

You'll never have anyone the caliber of Cedric Maxwell, Tony Parker, Chauncey Billups etc sniff a MVP award.

To be MVP, you're one of the best players in the league, if not THE best in the league over the course of a 82 gm season. To be finals MVP, you gotta play the best merely in a best of 7.

There's a big difference and that makes the MVP much more impressive. Sure, if you want to focus on the winning/championship aspect, a finals MVP is better because it virtually assures your team is winning the championship as well but there's so many other variables that you gotta take into account. I'm not going to say Billups' 04 finals MVP is more impressive than KG's MVP that year because KG was not fortunate enough to have the teammates Billups did or have the misfortune of having multiple injuries to his teammates in the playoffs.
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post #3424 of 3775 (permalink) Old 10-14-2012, 04:17 PM
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Re: NBA Offseason Thread 2012

Yeah but you're playing those 7 games against the best of the best. I understand the "prestige" of being the MVP of the regular season and I get that usually the best player [sometimes NOT] will win that award.

However at the end of the day the point of playing the game is to win CHAMPIONSHIPS and not awards.

I digress. This is just one man's opinion. I would rather have my guy be Finals MVP [Wade in '06] rather than league MVP and be a first round out [KG].

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post #3425 of 3775 (permalink) Old 10-14-2012, 04:19 PM
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Re: NBA Offseason Thread 2012

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Disagree on Hakeem 95 and Kobe 06. Robinson pretty much deserved that MVP leading an average team to the best record in the L and he had better stats than Hakeem in the season. Hakeem missed 10 games and Rockets only managed to win 47 games. Its a reg. season award so you can't really put any emphasis on what happened in the playoffs. Same with Kobe in 06. You don't get the MVP on a 45 win team and 7th seed in a conference. Not really his fault and in the literal sense, he was the MVP since LA would've crashed without him to a greater degree than if any other team lost its star player but team success whether fair or unfair is weighted to a certain extent.

I agree on 2011 though. Dwight is my choice as well. More dominant than Rose, improved his game offensively that year and getting a mediocre Orlando team to 52 wins + a top 3 defense (Gortat was gone as a back up so that's another +) is a fine team achievement by itself. Rose was great and the best PG that year but he had a much better team with the backing of an elite team defense that he contributed little to(Bulls #1 DRtg, ORtg, #11) which was often what won them/kept them in games when Rose went cold.

Also, I'd add Kobe has a good argument for 08. Wouldn't really say Paul got snubbed and I like Paul way more than Bean.
You're right about Hakeem, I think he had the better numbers but the Spurs had the much better record so..

And yeah, Kobe didn't really deserve it in 06 but it was a joke that Nash won it 2 times in a row. He deserved one, but not two. Take your pick if Kobe won it in 06 or Shaq won it in 05

Paul had an amazing year in 08. 21/12/4/3 on 49% and 37% from 3? And leading his team to a 56-26 rec with his only help being David West, Peja (who started declining but certainly wasn't bad) and Chandler? I'll take that any day over 28/6/5/2 on 46% especially when the Lakers were only better by one win over the Hornets. Sure, it wasn't even Pauls best year (next year was), but it felt like Kobe got it because of the lifetime achievement factor. Saying that, he was a straight fucking animal in the playoffs that year.

Quote:
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Wade had a strong case in '09. Much weaker team than the winner LBJ and Kobe who somehow finished before Wade in 2nd which just turned me off to the whole NBA MVP thing ever since. Was never a big MVP guy anyway, in any sport. Finals MVPs to me mean much more anyway.
Yeah, Wade really had an outstanding year. I forgot how shitty his supporting cast that year was too, if he won instead of LBJ it would have still been fair.
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post #3426 of 3775 (permalink) Old 10-15-2012, 02:07 PM
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Re: NBA Offseason Thread 2012

MVP is a ridiculous award in any case. It is awarded to the best player on the best team(or close to being the best team). It has nothing to do with how much value you really add to your team. Would Heat have been Champions last season without Lebron? Probably not. Would they have been great anyways(with healthy parts of course)? yeah.




And the funny thing about the Thunder situation with Harden is that if they were still in Seattle they probably could give out another big contract as the market there is bigger. So basically moving the team is somewhat causing them problems. Karma, isn't it great. 2



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post #3427 of 3775 (permalink) Old 10-15-2012, 02:12 PM
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Re: NBA Offseason Thread 2012

The Heat would've been around the 5th or 6th seed without LeBron.

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post #3428 of 3775 (permalink) Old 10-15-2012, 02:36 PM
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Re: NBA Offseason Thread 2012

A healthy Bosh and Wade are a top 3 team in the East regardless because of how shit that conference is. They're also still contenders, which can't be said about other teams if you remove a player tbh.


Celtics without Rondo(or KG) aren't contenders.

Spurs without Duncan aren't contenders(I'm not suggesting he should have been the MVP btw, just saying).

Mavs without Dirk...

Etc.


These are the most valuable players to their teams. Are they the best players? No. Are they even the best players on their team? No. But without them their team is missing a huge role that they wouldn't be able to survive against.


The award has nothing to do with your actual value to your team, it has to do with your team's record and if you put up some of the best numbers.



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post #3429 of 3775 (permalink) Old 10-15-2012, 02:57 PM
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Re: NBA Offseason Thread 2012

Except they're not.

I still take healthy Chicago, healthy Boston and Indiana over Miami without LeBron.

Since the Big 3 formed in Miami, the Heat are under .500 when LeBron doesn't play but above .500 when Wade or Bosh doesn't play.

Chalmers/Cole
Wade/Ray
Battier/Miller
Haslem/Lewis
Bosh/Anthony

Is not a contender, they're a playoff team no doubt, but not a contender and not top 3 in the East.

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post #3430 of 3775 (permalink) Old 10-15-2012, 03:13 PM
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Re: NBA Offseason Thread 2012

You must really, REALLY hate Wade if you don't think he could carry that supporting cast into a top 3 this year. Hell, I was talking about last year where their team was worse, but there's no doubt in my mind that they would be top 3 this year with that team.

When Wade and Bosh joined two years ago people considered them contenders, adding Lebron was the piece they needed to make a potential dynasty.



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