2012-2013 Discussion Thread for La Liga, Serie A, Bundesliga, Ligue 1, etc - Page 191 - Wrestling Forum : WWE, TNA, Debate League, Wrestling Videos, Women of Wrestling Forums
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Old 12-10-2012, 05:02 PM   #1901 (permalink)
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Default Re: 2012-2013 Discussion Thread for La Liga, Serie A, Bundesliga, Ligue 1, etc

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Originally Posted by Henry Hill View Post
Maradona was twenty five when he did this:



Messi was 19 years old when he scored this goal.
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Old 12-10-2012, 05:12 PM   #1902 (permalink)
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Default Re: 2012-2013 Discussion Thread for La Liga, Serie A, Bundesliga, Ligue 1, etc

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Originally Posted by Purple Aki View Post


Messi was 19 years old when he scored this goal.
TBF, There's a difference between scoring the winning goal in a World Cup Quarter Final, and scoring against a low table league side.

The occasion was far different
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Old 12-10-2012, 05:13 PM   #1903 (permalink)
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Default Re: 2012-2013 Discussion Thread for La Liga, Serie A, Bundesliga, Ligue 1, etc

Completely irrelevant. I'm showing you what a 25 year old is capable of.
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Old 12-10-2012, 05:19 PM   #1904 (permalink)
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Default Re: 2012-2013 Discussion Thread for La Liga, Serie A, Bundesliga, Ligue 1, etc

Right, but there isn't a WC on this year, which makes your point irrelevant.

Messi was 23 and 19 during the last 2 world cups. Not 25 like he is now.
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Old 12-10-2012, 05:28 PM   #1905 (permalink)
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Default Re: 2012-2013 Discussion Thread for La Liga, Serie A, Bundesliga, Ligue 1, etc

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Rather huehuehue. 12 goals in 9 internationals this year for Argentina. Diego Maradona hasn't won the Champions League, twice even. Or broke goalscoring records of such pedigree.

People that make these type of sweeping comments of 'internationals/Stoke' against Messi, really do not watch him outside of the occasional match in the European Champions League. And, well fuck it, if people did, they still wouldn't make those sweeping comments. They'd see the hype. It isn't aimed at you, there are people who still think this way.

Throw in 'World Cup is invalid', already backed up by posts made earlier in the thread. It isn't exactly his fault, that a country of Argentina's size and stature, hasn't produced class defenders or goalkeepers.

Hes 25 years old. And he is already on his way to being far, far beyond his closest rival to the best player in the world. When hes 35, he'll have plenty more medals, plenty more records and hundreds, maybe even a thousand goals in competitive football.
It's not all about goals. I don't think you understand what Maradona accomplished at club level. What he did for Napoli would be the equivalent of Suarez dragging Liverpool to the premiership. And plese Messi fanboys don't jump on the old "there were no good teams back then bullshit" because Serie A in Maradona's era was fucking sublime and he somehow, god only knows how made a team who were completely irreleveant before he arrived overcome one of the greatest Milan sides in history which boasted the likes of Van Basten, Maldini, Baresi, Gullit, Ancelotti and Rijkard. You might just have heard of a few of those players...

You're too caught up in a world of stats. International career is the true making of a GOAT and if you don't want to believe that then more fool you.


Quote:
Right, but there isn't a WC on this year, which makes your point irrelevant.

You said he's only 25. I was just showing you how a 25 year old conquered the world of football making the point that it's not really that young at all when you look at the calibre of player Messi is up against in the GOAT stakes.

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Old 12-10-2012, 05:39 PM   #1906 (permalink)
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Default Re: 2012-2013 Discussion Thread for La Liga, Serie A, Bundesliga, Ligue 1, etc

My point was that he was 23 and 19 in previous WCs and people hold his performances there against him.

Messi at 25 has scored 86 goals in 12 months. So 25 isn't really that young, but that wasnt my point.
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Old 12-10-2012, 05:45 PM   #1907 (permalink)
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Default Re: 2012-2013 Discussion Thread for La Liga, Serie A, Bundesliga, Ligue 1, etc

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Originally Posted by Henry Hill View Post
What research have you done to indicate that it was one of the weakest world cups team wise? Looking at the squad lists, it seems to me that Italy, Brazil and Germany all look pretty damn good on paper back then. And having a team built around you means nothing when you don't have the quality to back you up otherwise Van Persie would have guided Arsenal to the title last season. The difference was that Diego was so freakin talented that he actually could have gone to a team like Liverpool and made them challengers.
Brazil - Injures to key players plus in-fighting. Leandro (unsung hero of WC82 squad) even retired right before the tournament because the coach dropped his friend.

Germany - Work in progress. A bit like Germany is at the moment. Great team but not at their peak yet. In fact look at the next tournament final to see what would happen when they were ready.

Italy - Not exactly the Italy of 4 years prior.

Van Persie guided Arsenal to third last season, a great acomplishment. Look how well they are doing without him being the focal point. If Van Persie can do that I have no doubt a talent one step above him such as Messi would be able to muster up a title challenege.

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You're too caught up in a world of stats. International career is the true making of a GOAT and if you don't want to believe that then more fool you.
You look at footballers incorrectly.

Also what was the first World Cup you ever watched?

Last edited by Snowman : 12-10-2012 at 05:48 PM.
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Old 12-10-2012, 05:50 PM   #1908 (permalink)
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Default Re: 2012-2013 Discussion Thread for La Liga, Serie A, Bundesliga, Ligue 1, etc

Yeah that's fine we were making different points.


Some people on here seem very confused about international attributes.

1.) The World Cup is and always will be the most important event in football. Just because you don't like or appreciate it doesn't change that fact. No-one would swap a World Cup winners medal for a Champions League medal. I bet Torres wouldn't even swap his anonymous winners world cup medal for a Champions league win accompanied with a Golden Boot.

2.) When you play for Argentina and the player you're being directly compared to as the greatest of all time played for Argentina of course international performance is relevant. So the team isn't built around him? So the managers have been shit? So what? You take the bull by the horns and you show the world why you are the greatest to have ever graced the game. That doesn't mean winning the thing, it means putting on an unforgettable spectacle that people will never forget and will become as iconic as the stuff he has done at club level.

When I think World Cup 98 my first thought is France winning, my second is Bergkamp's stroke of match winning genius against Argentina. Messi needs a few of those moments on his CV. He has 2, maybe even 3 more tournaments to achieve that goal.


Quote:
I have no doubt a talent one step above him such as Messi would be able to muster up a title challenege.
Maradona won the title twice against one of the all time great club sides. He did far more than just muster a title challenge.

We don't know what Messi would do being part of just a good team just like we don't know what Maradona could have accomplished in Europe in today's much friendlier format of qualification. It still doesn't take away from either achievement.

Last edited by Henry Hill : 12-10-2012 at 05:55 PM.
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Old 12-10-2012, 05:52 PM   #1909 (permalink)
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Default Re: 2012-2013 Discussion Thread for La Liga, Serie A, Bundesliga, Ligue 1, etc

Can't justify your opinion if it is based around a player becoming world class because of 7 good games at a month long tournament, which occurs every 4 years. So 1 month every 48 months.
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Old 12-10-2012, 06:02 PM   #1910 (permalink)
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Default Re: 2012-2013 Discussion Thread for La Liga, Serie A, Bundesliga, Ligue 1, etc

Being the best in the world against the best in the world in a pressurised situation is far more impressive than a goalscoring record over the course of one year.

The moment Messi turns it on in a world cup, I can guarantee everyone on here who had previously said it wasn't important will suddenly be creaming their pants over just how important it is. You don't think the World Cup matters at the moment because Messi hasn't performed to his best at a World Cup. That's the simple truth. It's your safety option. If Messi never performs at the WC then you'll bring up all this stuff about how the champion league has evolved to become more prestigious yada yada yada.... If he does perform at a WC then you won't need to scramble for an excuse.

I personally don't have any bias on the issue whatsoever. The moment Messi has a brilliant WC I'll concede that he really is the best player of all time.

Last edited by Henry Hill : 12-10-2012 at 06:08 PM.
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