2012-13 English Premier League/Cups Thread (Sometimes being BRAVE is not enough) - Page 52 - Wrestling Forum : WWE, TNA, Debate League, Wrestling Videos, Women of Wrestling Forums
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Old 07-13-2012, 09:27 PM   #511 (permalink)
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Default Re: 2012-13 English Premier League Thread

what I honestly think? context matters. how terry said it made a difference. and by the sound of things, anton instigated the problem

Now, the question if Terry said the racial slur as an insult is a whole different problem. IGNORING all preconceived judgements on John Terry, its quite possible he could have done it and meant it as a slur. however its also possible it was indeed a miscommunication. and trust me, these things happen. I read a story recently that stated that the creators of Puma and Adidas were brothers who dedicated their lives to an angry rivalry over ONE miscommunication that continuously escalated.

unfortunately, only one man knows for sure what happened that day, and thats John Terry. Simply put, we dont know. Its fairly likely that he did indeed mean it in that way. what i have a problem with, is everyone acting like they KNOW exactly what happened, and john terry is a criminal who should be locked up, despite the fact that the judge clearly pointed out, they dont know. there isnt enough evidence. apparently hating john terry for whatever imaginary reason doesnt count as evidence.

the fact this went to court is borderline retarded. in no universe should saying a few words go so far. it shoulda been sorted out between the players, and maximum by the FA.

simply put, everyone is letting their own bias get ahead of them. from the wacko holding a life sized john terry outside the court to the thousands online who think john terry is the antichrist. its little surprise that the way its set up

chelsea fans: not guilty angel
everyone else: satan

but we're all ignoring the key fact. We. Dont. Know. And neither does Anton, and neither does the lip reader. The words were said and the context of it can make quite some difference. The only man who does was the defendant in court today. And more or less, thats for him to live with.

Snrub said this racism sets a dangerous precedent about racism. I beg to differ, personally, i think if he was found guilty it would have set even more of a precedent. It would have essentially implied that depending on personal bias, we can convict someone if not 100% sure of their guilt. I asked several of my friends who study law in the UK and they agree. She had no idea who John Terry was and only followed the trial and read the reports. And she stated, there was no way Terry could be convicted. Because luckily, we dont live in a world where a man can be tried based on insufficient evidence and personal bias. Innocent until proven guilty, beyond a reasonable doubt.
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Old 07-13-2012, 09:46 PM   #512 (permalink)
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Default Re: 2012-13 English Premier League Thread

redead, do you think that Suarez was innocent?
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Old 07-13-2012, 09:52 PM   #513 (permalink)
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Default Re: 2012-13 English Premier League Thread

no idea, havent looked into the case properly in a while

its possible, but for some reason ive always felt that whole cultural thing could be true, but those Uruguayans they got seem to dispel that theory

i'll have to look over it again to make proper judgement, but if i remember right, a problem at the time was how suarez supposedly changed his story between instances, but that could have just been sensationalism by the fans and the media
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Old 07-14-2012, 01:39 AM   #514 (permalink)
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Default Re: 2012-13 English Premier League Thread

Joel makes the most sense in this thread.

He's been found innocent. That's good enough for me.
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Old 07-14-2012, 02:35 AM   #515 (permalink)
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Default Re: 2012-13 English Premier League Thread

Don't really know much about this Terry issue because I've not been following it since it happened. All I can say is if it's true, it's a shame really and he should have been punished. However, now that he's been cleared from court there's nothing much to say. Only waiting for the FA's decision on him. Terry's fond of disgraceful acts from the past so if it's true it won't come in as a surprise. From the Wayne Bridge's girlfriend affair to the red card he received at Camp Nou, John Terry's been a disaster of a leader at crucial situations.
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Old 07-14-2012, 02:53 AM   #516 (permalink)
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Default Re: 2012-13 English Premier League Thread

Terry's admitted saying it and his body language at the time in the video everyone saw on YouTube doesn't suggest he was simply repeating it. It looked more aggressive than that but because no-one can be sure he has to be found not guilty, even though looking at it the video it would suggest that he is.
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Old 07-14-2012, 05:12 AM   #517 (permalink)
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Default Re: 2012-13 English Premier League Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rush View Post
redead, do you think that Suarez was innocent?
Oh come on, Rush. The Suarez case was absolutely different. For one, the person who claims to be abused actually said they heard it. Suarez admits to directing that language at Evra. His excuse was it is common in Uruguay and when the research was conducted, it was said that was not the case.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nige™ View Post
Terry's admitted saying it and his body language at the time in the video everyone saw on YouTube doesn't suggest he was simply repeating it. It looked more aggressive than that but because no-one can be sure he has to be found not guilty, even though looking at it the video it would suggest that he is.
I think his body language doesn't look angry in all honesty. He's smiling and shouting to Anton. I think that's one of the reasons he was able to convince the Chief Magistrate.

I don't know whether he what he says is true or not. But as redead said, the evidence just is not clear enough. The angles aren't conclusive. There's people walking infront of Terry. We can't hear anything due to it being on a football pitch...

I find it hilarious that this trial went on for a week where professionals couldn't prove conclusively that he is guilty due to lack of evidence (in which they saw more than us), but the super smart, highly talented, great folk of the internet know for sure that he's guilty.

Innocent until proven guilty... Unless you're John Terry!
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Old 07-14-2012, 05:23 AM   #518 (permalink)
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Default Re: 2012-13 English Premier League Thread

Maybe aggressive was the wrong word but he doesn't look to me like he's questioning what Anton said, especially at the end when he said "fucking knobhead" and turned his head to the side, like he was muttering it as an insult. Before his mouth was blurred in the video you can clearly see what he said and admitted to in court.

I'm not saying he's guilty because it is inconclusive and you can't prove it. You'd have to be in Terry's head to be 100% sure which you have to be and can't in this case. It's just my opinion looking at the video that he wasn't repeating it like he said he was.
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Old 07-14-2012, 05:37 AM   #519 (permalink)
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Default Re: 2012-13 English Premier League Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nige™ View Post
Maybe aggressive was the wrong word but he doesn't look to me like he's questioning what Anton said, especially at the end when he said "fucking knobhead" and turned his head to the side, like he was muttering it as an insult. Before his mouth was blurred in the video you can clearly see what he said and admitted to in court.

I'm not saying he's guilty because it is inconclusive and you can't prove it. You'd have to be in Terry's head to be 100% sure which you have to be and can't in this case. It's just my opinion looking at the video that he wasn't repeating it like he said he was.
Yeah, that is fair. People will have their opinions on it. But the people who want him deemed guilty based on their opinions (and that is all it is, because the evidence does not prove either way) are laughable.

Not you Nige, you've made it clear that it's inconclusive.
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Old 07-14-2012, 06:48 AM   #520 (permalink)
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Default Re: 2012-13 English Premier League Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joel View Post
Not you Nige, you've made it clear that it's inconclusive.
Unlike Stevie G. Apparently punching someone in the face and being caught on CCTV isn't conclusive enough!
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