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Old 06-17-2012, 04:08 PM   #21 (permalink)
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- Scotland have the best international fans. (Oh, and it was announced today Scotland are playing England at Wembley in 2013, to mark the FA's 150th anniversary.)
- Rangers have the best club fans and are a better club than Celtic in other ways than form.
- Supporting Rangers in general... No one likes us we don't care.. (Which I don't think is true, but that's part of one of our songs.
But I thin neutral football fans that don't support Rangers or Celtic would maybe choose Rangers..).
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Old 06-17-2012, 04:09 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Seb View Post
I'm not decided, but only because Nadal is years away from the end of his career.

Hewitt fair enough, but his prime didn't last very long. As for Safin, I loved the guy, but he was very inconsistent across all the surfaces. Murray however is a consistent threat in the latter stages of at least 3 of the slams, even if one that the top 3 are nearly always able to overcome (which is more to their credit and than it is to his detriment).
Murray is not at the top level. It will be a suprise if he wins a grand slam. He can't get past the top 3 atm
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Old 06-17-2012, 04:09 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Murray is not at the top level. It will be a suprise if he wins a grand slam. He can't get past the top 3 atm
What a pointless post.

You didn't comprehend what I said whatsoever, unless you're trying to say Safin and Hewitt would be winning slams in this era? Murray is a top level player being dwarfed by the 2 best ever, and Djokovic who has been even above those two in the past 18 months.

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The point is, is that Messi has never stepped up in an International tournament like Pele, maradona etc have. He has got plenty of time to do this of course, but until he does, he is not the GOAT.
Maradona fair enough, but Pele did nothing significant in his domestic career, i.e. 90% of the football he played, because he wasted it playing in Brazil.
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Old 06-17-2012, 04:12 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Maradona fair enough, but Pele did nothing significant in his domestic career, i.e. 90% of the football he played, because he wasted it playing in Brazil.
I see your point with Pele, but he did step up in the big stage (world cup). I would say that him and Messi are perhaps on a par atm, because of Messi's amazing club record. But to over-take Pele, Messi needs to step up in an international tournament imo.
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Old 06-17-2012, 04:21 PM   #25 (permalink)
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I see your point with Pele, but he did step up in the big stage (world cup). I would say that him and Messi are perhaps on a par atm, because of Messi's amazing club record. But to over-take Pele, Messi needs to step up in an international tournament imo.
So the Champions League isn't a big stage then? 4 Golden Boots in a row, already comfortably the leading scorer in the knockout stages ever at the age of 24, will probably come close to doubling the all time scorers record by the time he's done. 73 goals this season, Pele couldn't even manage that in the shitty Brazilian League, but he played well at a few sub 10 game tournaments in some of the best teams ever that probably would've won without him, so that automatically makes him a better player. I'm not trying to degrade the World Cup, but international football is the minority of a players career and should supplement a players domestic achievements and performances (see Cruyff, Platini, Maradona).

Messi is already above Pele and he's 24. One bad World Cup in a team that called up over 70 different players that year, couldn't defend and were lead by a crackpot manager, but it's no biggie, he'll come big in the next one

By the way, Pele knows all of this, which is why he's constantly telling Neymar he doesn't need to move to Europe and making himself a laughing stock by hailing him as the best player in the world.
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Old 06-17-2012, 04:25 PM   #26 (permalink)
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So the Champions League isn't a big stage then? 4 Golden Boots in a row, already comfortably the leading scorer in the knockout stages ever at the age of 24, will probably come close to doubling the all time scorers record by the time he's done. 73 goals this season, Pele couldn't even manage that in the shitty Brazilian League, but he played well at a few sub 10 game tournaments in some of the best teams ever that probably would've won without him, so that automatically makes him a better player. I'm not trying to degrade the World Cup, but international football is the minority of a players career and should supplement a players domestic achievements and performances (see Cruyff, Platini, Maradona).

Messi is already above Pele and he's 24. One bad World Cup in a team that called up over 70 different players that year, couldn't defend and were lead by a crackpot manager, but it's no biggie, he'll come big in the next one
What i meant by International tournament is World Cup, Copa America and all those competitions. Like you said, he has bossed the Champions League, but people he is playing in an amazing side, with Iniesta, Xavi etc...

Time is on his side though, and i have no doubt in my mind, that he will be one of the top 3 ever, but whats stopping him atm, is performances at International level
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Old 06-17-2012, 04:27 PM   #27 (permalink)
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What a pointless post.

You didn't comprehend what I said whatsoever, unless you're trying to say Safin and Hewitt would be winning slams in this era? Murray is a top level player being dwarfed by the 2 best ever, and Djokovic who has been even above those two in the past 18 months.
Might have mis-read your post.

I was just making the point, that Murray is not much of a threat at a grand slam at the moment, because of the two GOATS and Novak. I know there is no shame being 2nd to them, but i don't think Murray will win a gand slam in his career.
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Old 06-17-2012, 04:31 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Might have mis-read your post.

I was just making the point, that Murray is not much of a threat at a grand slam at the moment, because of the two GOATS and Novak. I know there is no shame being 2nd to them, but i don't think Murray will win a gand slam in his career.
I donīt why I have a feeling that Murray will win the US Open this year. I think he will win a grandslam before he retires. If Potro can, why not him? Hard court is his best surface.
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Old 06-17-2012, 04:32 PM   #29 (permalink)
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I donīt why I have a feeling that Murray will win the US Open this year. I think he will win a grandslam before he retire. If Potro can, why not him?
Because he is British.
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Old 06-17-2012, 04:36 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Might have mis-read your post.

I was just making the point, that Murray is not much of a threat at a grand slam at the moment, because of the two GOATS and Novak. I know there is no shame being 2nd to them, but i don't think Murray will win a gand slam in his career.
Yep, you misunderstood my post. The bold is why he'll unfortunately probably never win a slam.
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