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Old 01-21-2013, 02:56 AM   #3371 (permalink)
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Default re: Tennis Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by NJ88 View Post
It's not like the faster grass courts are unplayable to the more defensive player. In the past couple of years we've had Nadal and Djokovic as champions and Murray as a finalist, they've managed a faster courts despite not being as aggressive and powerful as say a Tsonga, so it should work the other way round too. Tennis is now having players at the top focused on being the very best athlete they can be. Most players at the top don't just 'grind' out wins with defensive play, they use variety which is what it's all about.
Tbf, Grass courts are now much slower than they were before.
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Old 01-21-2013, 03:00 AM   #3372 (permalink)
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Default re: Tennis Discussion Thread

They are slower...but they are faster than other surfaces which makes you think aggressive guys should have more of a chance at winning or going further. Yet defensive players are winning more often than not.
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Old 01-21-2013, 03:30 AM   #3373 (permalink)
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Default re: Tennis Discussion Thread

I'm not saying all courts should be the same speed. And i'm not trying to say that attacking players should be at the top of the sport.

But what you said above could be applied to the 90's and fast courts. People moaned because attacking players like Pete Sampras could one strike their way to victory. If we use your argument, then the defensive players should have adapted to those surfaces, But that didn't happen. Instead, courts were slowed down to help out defensive players, And they were right in doing so. But they have gone way too far and now most courts are slow. The closest we got to the best variety was in the mid 00's.

But defensive players are benefited in todays game, just as attacking players were in the 90's. The best athletes are rising to the top, whilst talented ball strikers are struggling because they can't hit through the surfaces. A big hitter or good ballstriker has to hit 4-5 perfect shots to hit a winner against a Murray or a Djokovic, and it's not on. Wawrinka played a blinder yesterday, but still couldn't win. Obviously, Murray & Djokovic are great defenders, but you can't seriously say that court speeds don't help them in some cases.

Also, nobody has tried to argue my point about injuries. Slow hard courts are causing more injuries to players, and thats even worse than the style benefitting.

There should be a variety of court speeds. Grass should be fast, Clay should be slow, and Hard should be middle, with indoor being fast. Therefore we have a variety, and no particular style is benefited. I don't see how anyone can say that all courts should be slow, or all courts should be fast (except clay). I don't want every player to become a defensive player or the sport will be boring. Same applies for everyone being an attacking player. I want to see a variety of styles and a variety of surfaces. Serve & Volley, Offensive baseliners, Defensive baseliners, All court players etc...
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Old 01-21-2013, 04:02 AM   #3374 (permalink)
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Default re: Tennis Discussion Thread

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Tbf, Grass courts are now much slower than they were before.
This, I don't understand why they have slown down every surface.
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Old 01-21-2013, 04:47 AM   #3375 (permalink)
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Default re: Tennis Discussion Thread

No, I don't think all courts should be the same speed. There should be some variety, and there is...it's just the general speed of the courts is slower. Clay is slower than hard, and hard is slower than grass, they just aren't AS fast as before. However the court speed does reflect which players are the better athletes and reflects those who work hard. I'd say that even if the courts were speeded up, the same players would still end up winning though.

Some players who can hit huge, huge shots, and massive serves, it often comes naturally to them. They have the natural ability to do that. Being a great athlete, being able to move well, being able to chase down balls etc generally isn't something that's natural, it's something that has to be worked on...a lot. Guys who work hard on those areas are reaping the rewards, as they should.

My point is that, the speed of courts are what they are. The courts have been slower for a while now, and if these attacking players people mention want to get to the level of a Murray, Nadal or Djokovic they should adapt and work on areas of play which seem to work for the top guys. Being defensive works, mixing up play works, being a good returner often works better than having a massive serve etc. That's my point. The courts are slower...they need to deal with that.
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Old 01-21-2013, 05:16 AM   #3376 (permalink)
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Default re: Tennis Discussion Thread

There isn't much variety though. Most courts are slow, even Grass has been slowed down FFS. Grass should be the fast surface, with Clay being the slow one and hard a mix of both. The tour shouldn't be a bias towards particular styles. Defensive players struggled in the 90's off Clay. Do you think those players should have adopted a better serve & better volleys? It's the same argument your using here for attacking players in this era. No, they slowed the courts down, and like i said, they were right in doing so. But now the courts are too slow, the ball bounces too high, which benefits defensive players. The courts were what they were, but they still changed them. Why can't they do it now?

I'm not disagreeing that players should work on their defence, and athleticsm, because they should. I'm just saying that todays courts favour defensive players, just like 90's courts favoured attacking players.

Slow Hard courts are not good for any reason. I just don't see how Slow hard courts are the way to go. It favours Defensive players, and it causes injuries. Hard court should be balanced especially, seen as though most of the tour is spent on hard courts. Therefore it's balanced, and there is a decreasing chance of injuries.
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Old 01-21-2013, 05:32 AM   #3377 (permalink)
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Default re: Tennis Discussion Thread

I'm saying yeh, the courts are all fairly slow, but they aren't all one degree of slow, some courts are still faster or slower than others, and attacking players don't really generally do any better on faster courts than they do on slower courts no matter how fast or slow they are. It's still the same guys in the finals, and the semi finals and I understand the courts are all slower than they used to be but they aren't all just one single speed.

The players in the 90s are far different to now, and the tennis in the 90s is far different to now. It's a different era, tennis players these days I think would probably be able to outplay a lot of guys from the 90s because they are far better athletes, have far better conditioning and are able to play for far longer. That's the evolution of the sport, that's what tennis players need to be in order to compete at the top level whether the courts are fast or slow.

The courts do favour the more defensive player and the better athlete over the guys who just whack the ball as hard as they can yes, and they could change it, I wouldn't have a major issue with it. But I still think the guys at the top now would still be the guys who were winning the tournaments. I think you HAVE to be that type of player at the top now to make an impact. That's my opinion anyways.

EDIT: I can't figure out if Raonic is a terrible returner or Federer's serving really well...or a mixture of both. Either way, too many errors from Raonic, giving away points so easily. Federer hasn't put a foot wrong though.
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Old 01-21-2013, 05:49 AM   #3378 (permalink)
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Default re: Tennis Discussion Thread

There is no way of finding out though. It's the same thing with every sport, because like you said thats the evolution of sport. We'll never know if Djokovic would be able to handle Sampras' Serve & Volley attack on the 90's grass surface etc...

Anyway, Nice one Fed

Tsonga vs Federer Quarter Final looks good. Especially if Jo turns up to play
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Old 01-21-2013, 06:04 AM   #3379 (permalink)
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Default re: Tennis Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by nazzac View Post
To be an elite player now it's more about Athleticsm, rather than ability.
Well that's bullshit for starters. Yeah you need the athleticism to get to the ball but guys like Djokovic and Murray are still able to hit winners off returns most other players wouldn't even reach. That's like saying Usain Bolt could be an elite tennis player because he could reach every ball regardless of how he returns it.
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If the courts are slower, all players should train in a way which lets them deal with that to be honest. Murray and Djokovic obviously work very hard on training to be able to get a lot of balls back which makes them good at being defensive, that isn't to say they can't play aggressively. Maybe some of the more of the guys with aggressive playing styles could do the same. Defensive play is obviously a huge part of being a tennis player, they should train for that so they can get the balls back other players can.
^ Basically.
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But defensive players are benefited in todays game, just as attacking players were in the 90's. The best athletes are rising to the top, whilst talented ball strikers are struggling because they can't hit through the surfaces. A big hitter or good ballstriker has to hit 4-5 perfect shots to hit a winner against a Murray or a Djokovic, and it's not on. Wawrinka played a blinder yesterday, but still couldn't win. Obviously, Murray & Djokovic are great defenders, but you can't seriously say that court speeds don't help them in some cases.
They're not "perfect" shots then. So if that Wawrinka/Djokovic match took play at 90's Wimbledon then Wawrinka would have won. It didn't though. It took place at Aus Open 2013 on that court. That's like saying if Djokovic was only half as good as he is then Wawrinka would have won. You play to the environment you're in and everyone's equal. It's not even like it's a case of being impossible to hit winners. Put the ball in the right area of the court and you'll win points. If you're just blasting a ball as hard as you can then you won't.

Who hits the ball the hardest on the Womens Tour? Serena. Who's winning everything on the Womens Tour? Serena. It's not a case of one style being favoured by the Courts. The best players are still the best players.

Top 4 should make the Semis in both draws now really.
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Old 01-21-2013, 06:11 AM   #3380 (permalink)
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Default re: Tennis Discussion Thread

Fed/Tsonga, can't wait. Should be a great match. Predict Fed to win in 4 close sets.

Murray to beat Chardy in straights sets and Berdych to beat Djokovic in 5(yeah bold prediction)

Raonic wasn't up to standard to be honest, he has made many silly errors. Think he made around 40 unforced erros, while Fed only did 8(which is good to see, hopefully he keeps that up) if I'm not wrong. I know Federer was serving well but still Raonic should have done better, didn't even had one break point.
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