2012-13 Football Transfer Discussion Thread - Page 99 - Wrestling Forum : WWE, TNA, Debate League, Wrestling Videos, Women of Wrestling Forums
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Old 05-30-2012, 11:20 AM   #981 (permalink)
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Default Re: 2012-13 Football Transfer Discussion Thread

You'll regret him leaving when Torres continues to not find the net next season. No problem with Drogba going if they buy Falcao, but dumping him so Torres gets to start, dear God.

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Originally Posted by Cookie Monster View Post
Maybe you don't know who Andre Villas-Boas is, let me clarify.

Villas-Boas was Mourinho's key man at Chelsea, before he was hired as their manager. He compiled extensive dossiers on all the teams Chelsea would be playing, and he coached the players through the tactics they'd need to employ to get the best out of their opposition. He did this for three years, in that time helping Mourinho get back-to-back titles and several cups. Villas-Boas did all the hard work for Mourinho, to the point where Mourinho wanted him at Inter instead of Porto. At Porto, Villas-Boas won just about everything he came into contact with, and did so employing a very sophisticated tactical system, one which was very difficult for the opposition to break down. Under his leadership Porto played in a way which lead Roman Abramovich to shell-out a massive fee to Porto just to acquire Villas-Boas as his new manager.

Now, Chelsea's situation under Villas-Boas is completely deceiving. Villas-Boas had a better record in the league than Roberto Di Matteo did, and there's stats out there to prove it. All of the negativity around Villas-Boas is fan propaganda from Chelsea fans who were completely unwilling to have a transition season. Villas-Boas was in the midst of reforming the team and employing the kind of football Abramovich wanted, but he was: 1. Completely undermined by the prima-donnas in the dressing room, and 2. Was unable to acquire players he needed to enforce his tactics in the right way (Hulk and Moutinho being two of them, and a new centre-back); this meant the likes of John Terry had to play a high-line (as Chelsea didn't have a suitable replacement) and Terry couldn't do it, which meant Chelsea conceded a lot of goals; then with Kalou and company not delivering, and a mis-firing Torres, who he was forced to keep, Villas-Boas couldn't recreate the success of the tactics he used at Porto. If he'd had another season, I'm sure he'd have rejuvenated Chelsea, even if they didn't win the Champions League or FA Cup. I also think they'd have finished in a Champions League spot, too.
I know who AVB is. I know he was a scout at Chelsea. Did you know Mourinho basically disowned him and his work and the two now no long get on at all? He didn't do "all the hard work" for Mourinho. Chelsea would've had no less success without him. Look at Mourinho's success since.

Yes, he was successful in the Portugese league. Hardly the Premier League. There were questions over him as soon as he arrived as it was a big step up. He failed. He was tactically naive enough to try to play a high defensive line with John Terry instead of managing what he had, the basic sign of any good manager. He had a quicker CB in Alex, and got rid of him. He also dropped the world's best left-back. It's not deceiving, they were playing dreadful football, absolutely bombing in the league and losing 3-1 to Napoli in the CL. There's not a chance they would've got in the top 4 with him, are you completely nuts? They sacked him and won the CL and FA Cup. Turned out to be the best decision Abramovich has ever made.

I actually thought it was rash to sack him, but RDM came in and showed simple man management and playing with what you've got at your disposal can go a very long way. Turns out Chelsea didn't need a transitional season after all, they ended up having their best one ever. Phasing out the older players, the pillars of the club, does not work by trying to dump them all at once. I'm not saying AVB is a bad manager, but lets not pretend he didn't do a fucking awful job, the first big job of his career.
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Old 05-30-2012, 11:48 AM   #982 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Seb View Post
I know who AVB is. I know he was a scout at Chelsea. Did you know Mourinho basically disowned him and his work and the two now no long get on at all? He didn't do "all the hard work" for Mourinho. Chelsea would've had no less success without him. Look at Mourinho's success since.

Yes, he was successful in the Portugese league. Hardly the Premier League. There were questions over him as soon as he arrived as it was a big step up. He failed. He was tactically naive enough to try to play a high defensive line with John Terry instead of managing what he had, the basic sign of any good manager. He had a quicker CB in Alex, and got rid of him. He also dropped the world's best left-back. It's not deceiving, they were playing dreadful football, absolutely bombing in the league and losing 3-1 to Napoli in the CL. There's not a chance they would've got in the top 4 with him, are you completely nuts? They sacked him and won the CL and FA Cup. Turned out to be the best decision Abramovich has ever made.

I actually thought it was rash to sack him, but RDM came in and showed simple man management and playing with what you've got at your disposal can go a very long way. Turns out Chelsea didn't need a transitional season after all, they ended up having their best one ever. Phasing out the older players, the pillars of the club, does not work by trying to dump them all at once. I'm not saying AVB is a bad manager, but lets not pretend he didn't do a fucking awful job, the first big job of his career.
Absolute nonsense. Where do I start with that?

"Villas-Boas was successful in the Portugese league. Hardly the Premier League." -- and what about Mourinho?

"He was tactically naive enough to try to play a high defensive line with John Terry instead of managing what he had, the basic sign of any good manager. He had a quicker CB in Alex, and got rid of him. He also dropped the world's best left-back." -- Given that those players rank highly amongst Chelsea's overly obnoxious and self-entitled dressing room, he obviously didn't want to play Cole when he had Bertrand - who proved in the Champions League final he had what it took to step up - and sure, he could have played Alex instead of Terry, but neither were suited to the position and Terry was better than Alex. He bought in Cahill to play alongside Luiz, if I remember correctly, and things looked far better, but the Chelsea players who were left on the bench revolted and convinced people that AV-B was failing.

"There's not a chance they would've got in the top 4 with him, are you completely nuts? They sacked him and won the CL and FA Cup. Turned out to be the best decision Abramovich has ever made." -- The statistics in the league indicate that Andre Villas-Boas was more successful than Roberto Di Matteo in the league. When Villas-Boas was sacked Chelsea were fifth and were only 3 points off 4th place. Where did they finish? 6th and were 5 points off 4th place.

"I actually thought it was rash to sack him, but RDM came in and showed simple man management and playing with what you've got at your disposal can go a very long way. Turns out Chelsea didn't need a transitional season after all, they ended up having their best one ever." -- Di Matteo reinstated the Chelsea Children and blew their egos, that's all he did. Chelsea had the quality to win cups, but so did Liverpool and look how fucking atrocious they were in the league. Di Matteo is hardly a miracle-worker, he was incredibly lucky to progress past Barcelona on both occasions, and Bayern were the architects of their own downfall in Munich. For 3 games against those two teams Chelsea were completely void of any attacking presence and merely defended for 95% of the game. They got lucky with two missed penalties in normal time against both teams, and were fortunate enough to take the very few chances they had.

"I'm not saying AVB is a bad manager, but lets not pretend he didn't do a fucking awful job, the first big one of his career." -- You are saying AV-B is a bad manager, and you're completely wrong for doing so. AV-B will prove, given a fair chance, that he's a very savvy tactician; as he did when he took the biggest job of his career - at Porto.
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Old 05-30-2012, 11:55 AM   #983 (permalink)
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Absolute nonsense. Where do I start with that?

"Villas-Boas was successful in the Portugese league. Hardly the Premier League." -- and what about Mourinho?
Wait, what?

Mourinho WAS successful in the Prem. Serie A too. And La Liga. Also won two CL's. AVB has ONLY been successful in the Portugese League and hasn't proved anything in the Prem.

Quote:
"He was tactically naive enough to try to play a high defensive line with John Terry instead of managing what he had, the basic sign of any good manager. He had a quicker CB in Alex, and got rid of him. He also dropped the world's best left-back." -- Given that those players rank highly amongst Chelsea's overly obnoxious and self-entitled dressing room, he obviously didn't want to play Cole when he had Bertrand - who proved in the Champions League final he had what it took to step up - and sure, he could have played Alex instead of Terry, but neither were suited to the position and Terry was better than Alex. He bought in Cahill to play alongside Luiz, if I remember correctly, and things looked far better, but the Chelsea players who were left on the bench revolted and convinced people that AV-B was failing.


Except Bertrand played on the wing in the final, and have you watched Cole recently? He didn't even play Bertrand, he played Bosingwa at left-back.

Luiz? He was appalling under AVB. Far worse than Terry.

There are plenty of ego's and self-entitled players in football. But when they're your best players, you don't dump them.

Luiz, Cech, Torres, Terry all looked awful under AVB. He also alienated Cole and didn't play Drogba enough. All those players improved dramatically when RDM came in. Bosingwa, Mikel and Malouda were all awful under AVB too, but there's only so much you can polish a turd.

Quote:
"There's not a chance they would've got in the top 4 with him, are you completely nuts? They sacked him and won the CL and FA Cup. Turned out to be the best decision Abramovich has ever made." -- The statistics in the league indicate that Andre Villas-Boas was more successful than Roberto Di Matteo in the league. When Villas-Boas was sacked Chelsea were fifth and were only 3 points off 4th place. Where did they finish? 6th and were 5 points off 4th place.
Who gives a shit? RDM made the league position irrelevant by WINNING the Champions League. I don't need to statistics to know Chelsea didn't look like finishing in the CL under AVB. Results were getting worse and worse and Arsenal were flying at the time he was sacked after an awful start.

Quote:
"I actually thought it was rash to sack him, but RDM came in and showed simple man management and playing with what you've got at your disposal can go a very long way. Turns out Chelsea didn't need a transitional season after all, they ended up having their best one ever." -- Di Matteo reinstated the Chelsea Children and blew their egos, that's all he did. Chelsea had the quality to win cups, but so did Liverpool and look how fucking atrocious they were in the league. Di Matteo is hardly a miracle-worker, he was incredibly lucky to progress past Barcelona on both occasions, and Bayern were the architects of their own downfall in Munich. For 3 games against those two teams Chelsea were completely void of any attacking presence and merely defended for 95% of the game. They got lucky with two missed penalties in normal time against both teams, and were fortunate enough to take the very few chances they had.

"I'm not saying AVB is a bad manager, but lets not pretend he didn't do a fucking awful job, the first big one of his career." -- You are saying AV-B is a bad manager, and you're completely wrong for doing so. AV-B will prove, given a fair chance, that he's a very savvy tactician; as he did when he took the biggest job of his career - at Porto.
RDM "reinstated the Chelsea children" and was astronomically more successful than AVB.

Turning round a 3-1 defecit against Naploli, beating Barcelona over two legs including come back from behind with 10 men at the Camp Nou, and beating Bayern on their home turf... after the way Chelsea looked under AVB, is about as close to a miracle as you will come.

No, i'm not saying AVB is a bad manager, i'm saying he did a bad job at Chelsea. Porto a bigger job than Chelsea? What the actual fuck
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Old 05-30-2012, 11:58 AM   #984 (permalink)
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porto bigger than chelsea?

what. watwatwat
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Old 05-30-2012, 12:09 PM   #985 (permalink)
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Default Re: 2012-13 Football Transfer Discussion Thread

A few things:

Bertrand didn't step up in the CL Final. He played and added nothing to the team. Also he played LM so even if you thought he played well, he didn't prove himself to be a replacement for Cole.

RDM played weakened teams in the League at the end of the season. Look at the team he put out against Liverpool. He was concentrating on winning the cups at that point. Oh and he won them. Both of them. Including the CHAMPIONS LEAGUE with a weak squad. Chelsea were right in the race for 4th until they decided to concentrate on winning the CL and started resting players.

Not even gonna get started on that fact you think Porto was the biggest job if his career.
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Old 05-30-2012, 12:14 PM   #986 (permalink)
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I'm going to hope he means it was his biggest job at the time he took it
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Old 05-30-2012, 12:15 PM   #987 (permalink)
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Default Re: 2012-13 Football Transfer Discussion Thread

We'll just wait and see on Torres.

As for RDM's record being not much better AVB's, well, duh. He won absolutely huge matches in Champions league and FA, not to mention his run of matches in a concentrated time were far, far more difficult than AVB's where we struggled to beat lower table teams. Not to mention, by the end we refocused

AVB's smart but his biggest mistake was not making the best of what he had. Alienating Alex and Anelka wasnt a great idea either, we coulda used them on the squad instead of just sitting on the side doing nothing

By the end of the season, AVB was basically claiming he didnt even need his team to win. Da fuq?
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Old 05-30-2012, 12:28 PM   #988 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Seb View Post
Wait, what?

Mourinho WAS successful in the Prem. Serie A too. And La Liga. Also won two CL's. AVB has ONLY been successful in the Portugese League and hasn't proved anything in the Prem.
Was Villas-Boas given a fair chance in the Premiership? No. Has he managed in Italy or Spain? No. AV-B has "ONLY" been successful in the one league he's been given a chance to manage in. I have no idea what that has to do with the quote I posted, though. You said his success in Portugal was irrelevant, I highlighted Mourinho had the exact same experience before his move to Chelsea, and we all know how well he did.

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:

Except Bertrand played on the wing in the final, and have you watched Cole recently? He didn't even play Bertrand, he played Bosingwa at left-back.

Luiz? He was appalling under AVB. Far worse than Terry.

There are plenty of ego's and self-entitled players in football. But when they're your best players, you don't dump them.
Would Bertrand have played the final if AV-B hadn't blooded him into the team? No. Was Luiz a completely rejuvenated player under Di Matteo? No. Is the talent of one individual more important than the team? No. Total nonsense. AV-B would have adequately replaced Cole, most likely with Jordi Alba. Luiz would have improved once he settled into the style of play (he always showed glimpses of promise) and Bertrand was only in the final because AV-B gave him the experience to be there.

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Who gives a shit? RDM made the league position irrelevant by WINNING the Champions League. I don't need to statistics to know Chelsea didn't look like finishing in the CL under AVB. Results were getting worse and worse and Arsenal were flying at the time he was sacked after an awful start.
Roberto HAD TO make the league position irrelevant by winning the Champions League because he failed to improve their league position himself. Chelsea were LUCKY to win the Champions League, even if they deserved to win it on account of their defensive performances and their taking of chances.

As for the ignorance to factual statistics, would you sack Redknapp after he FAILED to get Tottenham into the Champions League? After all, you were 3rd with a sizeable point advantage and your results got worse and worse… or would you sit tight, not judge him on a bad run of form and overcome it by improving next season? Would Arsenal have done well to sack Wenger after their diabolical start to the season and an 8-2 hammering at Old Trafford? No. Same with Chelsea, which will be proven over the next couple of seasons as they fail to make the grade due to not addressing critical faults in their team (because they foolishly believe winning the Champions League vindicated their abysmal league performance, as you appear to believe).

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RDM "reinstated the Chelsea children" and was astronomically more successful than AVB.

Turning round a 3-1 defecit against Naploli, beating Barcelona over two legs including come back from behind with 10 men at the Camp Nou, and beating Bayern on their home turf... after the way Chelsea looked under AVB, is about as close to a miracle as you will come.

No, i'm not saying AVB is a bad manager, i'm saying he did a bad job at Chelsea. Porto a bigger job than Chelsea? What the actual fuck
Porto was his FIRST job in management, he came through that with flying colours. I didn't say Porto were a bigger club than Chelsea or suggest the job wasn't important to his career. I said that his first job was his most important one.

And, he didn't do a bad job at Chelsea. Unfortunately some people have no clue about this game beyond signing superstars and winning a few cups here and there; and that's okay, but don't waste my time by replying when you fail to actually understand the stupidity of what you're saying. If you want sustainable success on all fronts you have to build it; see Ferguson at United, the Barcelona project under Guardiola and Arsenal under Wenger (the latter of which will eventually come to fruition given the structure in place at Arsenal).
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Old 05-30-2012, 12:35 PM   #989 (permalink)
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AVB didn't do a bad job at Chelsea, and was closer to the top 4 than RDM but it was heading downhill and his man management seemed really awful. RDM turned the ship around and delivered a CL miracle (FA Cup was meh, any decent side should beat us and their road in wasn't too hard either)
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Old 05-30-2012, 12:38 PM   #990 (permalink)
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AVB didn't do a bad job at Chelsea? he started ok but He tried to do way to much at one time, got the players all against him and because of that the results were getting worse and worse since the players just didn't really give a shit about the manager. He had the chance and messed it up majorly. Frankly as soon as you Lose the respect of the locker room youve lost it all

As for him coming to us I wouldn't have opposed to him but my heart wouldn't exactly be settled he messed up Chelsea but we need rebuilding and he seems like a good manager for that. Still he would be just as big a risk as Martinez or Rodgers. Just because he did a brilliant job in Porto doesn't mean he would have been great for us too.
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