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Old 06-09-2012, 01:49 PM   #731 (permalink)
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Default re: 2012 GIANTS...TROUT >

The 3 slot is a team's best hitter for sure. Still there have been some leadoff hitters that were amazing. Rickey Henderson comes to mind. I can't say Trout will be Henderson, but I won't be shocked if he ends up around that level of play.

A leadoff guy on Henderson's level is rare and Trout might be that guy. So yeah, in almost all cases 3 slot > leadoff, but the exception shows when you have someone like Trout.
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Old 06-09-2012, 02:06 PM   #732 (permalink)
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Default re: 2012 GIANTS...TROUT >

Also important to consider that trout is already close to being the best lead off hitter in baseball. He's not just a typical leadoff hitter. I'd struggle to name many better.
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Old 06-09-2012, 02:42 PM   #733 (permalink)
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Default re: 2012 GIANTS...TROUT >

So the Twins really aren't that bad. I've seen them really bomb some pitchers this season and the latest victim is the WR from Notre Dame.
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Old 06-09-2012, 05:59 PM   #734 (permalink)
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Default re: 2012 GIANTS...TROUT >

Long Marlins slide coming looking at that schedule.
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Old 06-09-2012, 06:05 PM   #735 (permalink)
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Default re: 2012 GIANTS...TROUT >

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Harper isn't a much better hitter.



It's been done four times. I'll write it again...four times. Fenway is really old btw.

The fact it's easy to hit the ball out and it's only been done four times is astounding in itself, but from an oddity standpoint. I guess you'd have to look at every 19 year old that's been in Fenway. I mean if it's like 5 guys then yeah it's not that odd.
And it's not just any run-of-the-mill four guys that have done it.. so yeah it's a cool stat! I'm surprised Griffey Jr is not on that list to be honest.
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Old 06-09-2012, 07:25 PM   #736 (permalink)
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Default re: 2012 GIANTS...TROUT >

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Originally Posted by Maestro View Post
He's not really struggling persay. .290, 6 HRs, and 18 of his 40 hits have been extra base hits in 36 games played as a 19 year old is spectacular. What sucks for Bryce is that the Nationals offense is anemic.

Both are legit studs. I just see NL MVP in Harper. Don't know if I see Trout ever reaching that peak.
You don't see Trout as an AL MVP? I gotta say you are insane. Trout has been compared to Mantle. Now I am not big into those kind of comparisons but Trout's (and Harper's for that matter) peak is not just MVP caliber, its Hall of Fame caliber. inner circle HOF potentially IMHO. I also think people are underestimating Trout's power. He has 25-30 HR potential.

Furthermore, Trout has better make-up than Harper does. I can see Harper having issues with teammates because of the way he carries himself. Nothing wrong with having swag and knowing your great, but he carries himself like a tool shed.

I also am going back into stathead nerd mode, and note that Trout has already been worth about 3 WAR. THAT. IS. INSANE. Harper bout 1.5. Harper appears to be a below average defender at this stage but easily see him progressing to a solid above average defender in the future.

Harper's power potential is unreal though. On the scout scale of 20-80 for power, he is consensus rated an 80. Nobody is rated as an 80, ever. Mike Stanton wasn't even rated as an 80. It can't be overstated how insane it is to be rated an 80 in power. Trout, though, is rated an 80 in speed, but give me that power anyday, speed can go away much faster and isn't as game breaking.

In the end it comes down to preference. Do you prefer the all-around game that Trout has, or the game changing power that Harper possesses. Right now, I'd take Trout but I would say Harper has the higher ceiling, Trout the higher floor.

Also, MrMister, there are more players who have hit a home-run at Fenway as a teenager like Harper. I think the list you quoted are the youngest visiting players.

Quote:
With a two run homer in the fourth inning last night, Bryce Harper (19 years, 236 days) became just the 11th teenager ever to homer at Fenway Park and the second-youngest visiting player to homer at Fenway. Only Robin Yount (19 years, 204 days) did it at a younger age.
--
Quote:
As if Harper isn't good at the #3 spot, JM...

Dude's clutch with 2 walk off hits already. Agreed with PP. the Nats might have the future prototype that every team will desire. And let's not act like Harper doesn't have speed or can't play the outfield.
Quoting number of walk-off hits as a comparison between two players in their first season is just silly. Hell, comparing any two players by walk-offs is silly. I would love to make an argument that there is really no such thing as "clutch" as there have been numerous studies to pretty much disprove the idea of "clutchness", but I feel like I'll get flamed so I won't. And besides, while Trout hasn't had any walk-offs he has come up with quite a few "clutch" hits.

As for his defense, Harper, at this point, can't really play the outfield. Consensus numbers say he has been below average. One day he will be good out there but not now.

Final note, you guys are assuming Trout will bat lead-off his whole career. I don't see this as definite like ya'll are assuming. Trout can bat 1st, 2nd, or 3rd. Don't assume he will stay as a lead-off hitter. Just because you are fast does not mean you have to bat lead-off. Come on people, new era of baseball, new way of thinking. Would you bat juan pierre lead-off? Dee Gordon batting lead-off, for the record, is dumb too. What is the point of having a fast lead-off guy if he is never on base?
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Old 06-09-2012, 07:55 PM   #737 (permalink)
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Default re: 2012 GIANTS...TROUT >

I consider a guy clutch if he has a good avg with RISP, not that he wins games dramatically. Trout will lead off as long as Pujols is there. When Pujols retires, yeah Trout could go into the 3 slot. I don't think Pujols is close to done, but I might be wrong.

I was merely repeating something I read with the Harper homer at Fenway. I found it peculiar that only he, Mantle, Kaline, and Yount had done it at 19 even if it was visiting, which it probably was, I just forgot that part of it.. Nothing more really.

Btw, Zobrist exploded today and I marked.
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Old 06-09-2012, 08:01 PM   #738 (permalink)
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Default re: 2012 GIANTS...TROUT >

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMister View Post
I consider a guy clutch if he has a good avg with RISP, not that he wins games dramatically. Trout will lead off as long as Pujols is there. When Pujols retires, yeah Trout could go into the 3 slot. I don't think Pujols is close to done, but I might be wrong.

I was merely repeating something I read with the Harper homer at Fenway. I found it peculiar that only he, Mantle, Kaline, and Yount had done it at 19 even if it was visiting, which it probably was, I just forgot that part of it.. Nothing more really.

Btw, Zobrist exploded today and I marked.
What is really crazy is Trout will be 30 when Pujols contract is up. Or, in other words, still in his peak years as a baseball player (I consider peak years 26-30, 28-32..somewhere round there). Also, didn't mean to sound like I was calling you out or anything with Harper history.

I loled at your Zobrist comment tho.
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Old 06-09-2012, 08:07 PM   #739 (permalink)
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Default re: 2012 GIANTS...TROUT >

Nah, I didn't think you were calling me out. Even if you were, it's not like I'd be MAD.

I also don't want any of my marking for Trout make it seem like I don't think Harper is awesome. I just haven't seen Harper as much yet. If Harper was an Angel, A, or M, I'd have seen him more, but he's not even in the AL, so he's pretty far away from mattering to me atm.


edit: I did not realize Harper's power was rated so highly. If that's his game, it makes sense why he's not made as much of an impact early. If his power is at the top of the chart, yeah, when he gets his feet under him, it should get fun.
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Old 06-09-2012, 08:51 PM   #740 (permalink)
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Default re: 2012 GIANTS...TROUT >

The fact that Harper is 19 is just mindboggling.

19 year old don't hit well in the majors. It just doesn't happen. It is incredible that in a sport where the prime age is 26-32, a 19 year old is hitting the ball that well.

Personally, I'd be happy with Harper or Trout. I think I would take Trout just on the all-around game...but really, you'd pissed yourself for either one.
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