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**El Conquistador** · 03-08-2013, 03:58 PM

Nah. They're not getting in. I'm not trying to go against the grain for the sake of being "unique". I'm trying to be a realist. I can't see Toronto being anything over a .500 ball club. Bad bullpen, run of the mill SP, and a lot of injury prone position players. Even Lawrie is hurt again. He needs to shed that label.

JM · 03-08-2013, 04:08 PM

They don't have a bad bullpen. Guys you may not have heard of maybe but none of them are bad.

Run of the mill starters, lol. GOTCHA FLEX. They have the 3rd best rotation in the AL.

I think you're trying to convince yourself.

**El Conquistador** · 03-08-2013, 04:16 PM

No, I'm serious. Quit being so dismissive. It is annoying the hell out of me.

The only starter with good stuff on that staff is Morrow, but he's constantly hurt. I've had the fortune of watching Buehrle win the CWS a World Series. Good, reliable pitcher, but not a top of the line guy anymore. I don't think Dickey will translate well to the AL East, probably around a 3.75 ERA instead of a mid 2's. JJ didn't throw as hard last year as he did in previous years. Romero looked like a steaming pile of shit last season and continues to not impress anyone this Spring Training.

Again, I've seen Santos extensively in Chicago before we traded him to you guys. My knowledge on him is probably a little deeper than yours runs in his injury riddled season last year. Good stuff, but that xDoomsayer guy summed him up perfectly in his tenure here in Chicago.

I don't see what sticks out on the pitching side of things for Toronto. Morrow has the possibility of being a Cy Young pitcher, if healthy. What else is there? Why should I not be skeptical? Are the Blue Jays planning to outscore or what?

JM · 03-08-2013, 04:31 PM

Spring? lol. Romero before his first start said on camera that I will be throwing 90% sinkers today. And then went and threw 90% sinkers. It means nothing. They work on location and particular pitches more times than not are 100% predictable. Halladay, one of the best of this generation used to get rocked all spring long every year because he'd go out and throw pretty much one pitch her outing all spring. Not comparing the two but merely pointing out that spring means nothing. I'm not sure why everyone wants to fixate on the Jays number 5 starter like he's the make or break ace of this team. How many teams in this league have a 5th starter that is someone to be that excited about? Not many. He can only be better this year really. There's no way to be worse and this year he'll be healthy with a repaired elbow and knee.

Santos is one reliever out of 7 and he's solid. He's not even the best reliever they got. Probably 3rd or 4th best. He's not even the closer. There number 4 reliever is only solid? I'll take it.

One pitcher with good stuff? Not sure what to say here.

The AL game is completely different than the NL game. Dickey does not need an ERA in the low 2s to win. Especially on the Jays.

They've taken a team that was already a .500 team with a completely decimated rotation last year, no Bautista for 40% of the year, no production from LF or SS and improved pretty much across the field where ever they had a weakness. Mean while Boston is no better and probably worse, Yankees are decimated. Pedroia will CARRY the Red Sox though. By himself. And Yankees will be lead to the playoffs by whoever is left. Tampa is probably about the same.

There is not 6 ball clubs better than them...

**El Conquistador** · 03-08-2013, 04:34 PM

You'll find out what I'm talking about when the year elapses. Don't want any complaining when your opinion changes.

xdoomsayerx · 03-08-2013, 04:37 PM

Dickey will be the biggest bust in 2013. Mark my words.

JM · 03-08-2013, 04:41 PM

LOL, typical condescending Flexypoo. Teach me Flex, teach me. Tell me about Baseball.

gladdyontherise · 03-08-2013, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by El Conquistador

Nah. They're not getting in. I'm not trying to go against the grain for the sake of being "unique". I'm trying to be a realist. I can't see Toronto being anything over a .500 ball club. Bad bullpen, run of the mill SP, and a lot of injury prone position players. Even Lawrie is hurt again. He needs to shed that label.

Sounds a lot like the White Sox, except they have worse players.

xdoomsayerx · 03-08-2013, 04:55 PM

Age is a big concern, he's only had one stand out year. Facing.more al hitters won't help is cause. The guy is 38 I expect his innings to go down. Now he may get some nice run support that'll lead to some wins, but that's more luck.

Also, in a lot of rankings this year he's the 8th best pitcher? Absolutely not. Id take at least 15 pitchers instead of him.

Verlander
Kershaw
Strasburg
Price
Cain
Hammels
Gio Gonzalez
King felix
Jered weaver
Bumgardaner
Grienke
Chris sale
Scherzer
Cliff lee
James Shields

Hell, I could probably name more. My point is Dickey will be nothing like he was in 2012 . I could see this:

12-13, 4.75 era, 190 ip, 180 k

**El Conquistador** · 03-08-2013, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Mercer

LOL, typical condescending Flexypoo. Teach me Flex, teach me. Tell me about Baseball.

There's nothing condescending about it. If you truly are brainwashed enough to think that your bullpen runs four-seven deep, then we just don't agree and I'd rather not touch on that. It is almost irreconcilable views. You keep saying "LOL FLEX" or my favorite, "flexypoo give it up". Are we trying to have a discussion here or are you going to continue being an abrasive prick? If you want to discuss things, we can. Otherwise, I don't particularly appreciate your arrogant tone, sarcastic responses, and belittling comments. I would rather disengage from discussion with you then.

Janssen doesn't have closer stuff or any "A" pitches. Darren Oliver - can he even do the job of matching up against lefties proficiently anymore? Honest to God, there is no reason to believe that an assortment of Janssen, Santos, and Oliver can lead a bullpen to being a playoff caliber bullpen.

You can't assume a guy will be better because he reached an all-time low. That is illogical. I don't care what your excuse is to cover up for Romero, but Romero does not look good. It was bone spurs last year, now it is he's working on a sinker. What will it be in May? When can we accept that Romero isn't the ace that the organization thought he would be? All in all, the pitching is average, unless Morrow and Johnson go Cy Young on us all.