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post #2461 of 3692 (permalink) Old 11-16-2012, 07:30 PM
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re: 2012 GIANTS...TROUT >

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I forgot Rivera is coming back to the Yankees. Obviously if he's still got it, Yankees remain the team to beat.


How does the return of Rivera make them the favorites? His impact compared to what Soriano did will be minimal at best (even if he's 100%). I won't disagree that they're the favorites (well I'll wait till all FA is settled to see whos the team to beat in the division) but a closer replacing a guy that wasn't awful at all will be what keeps the Yankees at the top?



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post #2462 of 3692 (permalink) Old 11-16-2012, 07:34 PM
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re: 2012 GIANTS...TROUT >

Yep. He's kinda a big deal in case you were asleep the past decade or so.

He wasn't his dominant self prior to the knee injury, so yeah, there's question marks here. Jeter coming back too is unknown. Both guys are old. If they get their mojo back, Yankees win the East. Again.

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post #2463 of 3692 (permalink) Old 11-16-2012, 07:58 PM
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re: 2012 GIANTS...TROUT >

Soriano was rather lights out, save for a few blown saves (no pun intended). He had 42 saves, 2.26 ERA... Not that I think "saves" are the be all and end all of baseball, anyway, but I don't think the Yankees gain too much from Rivera returning, even if it's to classic Rivera form. Perhaps something of an intangible psychological advantage.

The most critical matters for the Yankees, it seems to me, are, fielding a more dynamic lineup from top to bottom this year, for key guys like Gardner and Sabathia (and Jeter and A-Rod while we're at it) to stay healthy and, realistically, to keep Kuroda (and keep him out of the Dodgers' fiendish grasp). The lineup issue could be a change in the way guys like Granderson and Cano are instructed to hit, or it could be more youth and energy, but something definitely needs to be done. Kevin Long has done a lot of great things for a bunch of guys who have come and gone for them, but almost ardent insistance--particularly when dealing with LHBs--to make them pull-happy robots has possibly helped to poison certain guys' productivity even in the face of lots of home runs as one of the chief positive outcomes, especially when they aren't getting the pitch for which they are primarily looking. Granderson in particular, far more than Cano, seem so to be suffering from this situation. His K rate has gone through the roof. In 2011, when he was an AL MVP candidate, it was at least acceptable as the production was evident, but while his dinger total a couple homers higher, many of the key numbers were down, OBP., SLG., OPS, OPS+.

The team is just so old in general. Some of these guys are going to lose multiple steps over the course of the next couple of seasons. Some will persist in being highly productive players. And probably one or two will fall off cliffs (perhaps A-Rod already did).

It's weird, but it seems like the offense is their biggest problem. Oakland and New York ended up being peculiarly similar in their offensive attacks, fundamentally overreliant on the home run. I say "overreliant" not because hitting tons of home runs is bad, it obviously isn't. But in each case it was imbalanced line of attack and it caught up with each team when, interestingly enough, they both had to face the Detroit Tigers and their superlative starting pitching. Yankees more so than the A's, but anyway.

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post #2464 of 3692 (permalink) Old 11-16-2012, 08:16 PM
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re: 2012 GIANTS...TROUT >

You don't think getting dominant classic Rivera back makes a difference? Shock value. Soriano as a setup man for Rivera or vice versa seems amazing on paper, so yeah, having both of them as shut down guys from the 7th or 8th on seems pretty freaking awesome to me.

He probably won't be able to return to that form. I think he's 43 and coming off of a an ACL surgery.

Only Texas scored more runs. Their lineup was fine. Could they use more speed? Probably. I want to say NYY led the AL in HRs. They just hit the wall in the post season. It happens. I do agree it's best to be as diverse as possible. That way when hitters slump you can still get guys on base and into scoring position. I don't think NYY had many guys that excelled at that. They should address this and I assume they will.

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post #2465 of 3692 (permalink) Old 11-16-2012, 08:26 PM
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re: 2012 GIANTS...TROUT >

Lead the AL in homers; played in the smallest home park, no correlation?

Or at least the shortest right field wall in baseball.


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post #2466 of 3692 (permalink) Old 11-16-2012, 08:41 PM
Vince gives me a comedy gimmick
 
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re: 2012 GIANTS...TROUT >

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Originally Posted by MrMister View Post
Yep. He's kinda a big deal in case you were asleep the past decade or so.

He wasn't his dominant self prior to the knee injury, so yeah, there's question marks here. Jeter coming back too is unknown. Both guys are old. If they get their mojo back, Yankees win the East. Again.
No shit he was good. But you're making it sound like Soriano was a bum out there, when that's far from the truth. 2.26 ERA 1.16 WHIP and 9.2 K/9 is very comparable to Rivera's career numbers. Even if Mo is 100%, replacing Mariano for Soriano will see little change because Soriano was pitching like a top 5 closer. It's not like it's going from Valturde to Rivera.

EDIT: And Mo was pitching like Mo lately. 2008-11 his stats are virtually identical, and 2012 is too small of a sample size to judge on since he didn't even get 9 full innings in.

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You don't think getting dominant classic Rivera back makes a difference? Shock value. Soriano as a setup man for Rivera or vice versa seems amazing on paper, so yeah, having both of them as shut down guys from the 7th or 8th on seems pretty freaking awesome to me.
Soriano opted out and is a FA. He's gonna close somewhere else where someone will overpay for him (as most teams do with high end relievers). It'll be Robertson/Mo 8-9, which, again, won't be a gigantic difference from Robertson/Soriano since Soriano pitched very, very well.




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post #2467 of 3692 (permalink) Old 11-16-2012, 09:09 PM
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re: 2012 GIANTS...TROUT >

Nah, I didn't know that Soriano would be gone. Since that's the case it changes things for sure.

I was thinking late game would be Soriano/Rivera or vice versa. This would've been an awesome setup/close situation.


edit: Looked up Soriano's situation. He still could sign with the Yankees. It's not like Rivera can go for much longer right? Right? I mean lol if he continues to pitch at a dominant level into his late 40s. That would be amazing.

Still as it stands, you're right, set up guy that isn't Soriano + MO isn't really an upgrade.

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post #2468 of 3692 (permalink) Old 11-16-2012, 09:20 PM
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re: 2012 GIANTS...TROUT >

Well he could go back to NY, but theoretically if he was gonna opt out you would think he would be looking for a closing job and someone will pay big bucks for him to do so (hopefully not the Tigers).



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post #2469 of 3692 (permalink) Old 11-16-2012, 09:23 PM
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re: 2012 GIANTS...TROUT >

Yeah I agree he probably goes for the sure thing closing gig with another team.

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post #2470 of 3692 (permalink) Old 11-16-2012, 09:40 PM
#Realtalk
 
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re: 2012 GIANTS...TROUT >

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Bet you the Yankees and Rays both finish better than the Jays.
See now, why'd you have to go and do that. Here we are with all this excitement and you go and say something like that. UNCALLED FOR.

All I can really do is ask how it tastes. HOW THIS TASTES.


#Realtalk


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