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post #2391 of 3692 (permalink) Old 11-14-2012, 01:56 AM
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re: 2012 GIANTS...TROUT >

Apparently the Jays odds in Vegas went from 40:1 to win the World Series immediately to 15:1 and 15:2 to win the pennant.

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post #2392 of 3692 (permalink) Old 11-14-2012, 02:07 AM
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re: 2012 GIANTS...TROUT >

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Originally Posted by MrMister View Post
You can win the AL East with average pitching if you knock the shit out of the baseball. Yankees starters weren't that great at all. Boston is in shambles. Baltimore defied pretty much everything and made the playoffs. Rays seem like the team in the best shape going into next season to me. Now the Blue Jays just raised them all.

Obviously games aren't played on paper so who the fuck knows what will actually happen.
Yankees starters definitely weren't "great," but, for the most part... They were fairly serviceable, I think. The first half of the season in particular, most of them did quite well for the most part. They were dealt some bad blows via injuries and the like, and Nova seemed to truly, undoubtedly regress (no doubt he's their #5 starter even if his numbers are probably not quite genuinely representative of his talent), but as you say, in a division that isn't really known for its pitching beyond the diamond at Tropicana Field, if you have C.C. Sabathia, Hiroki Kuroda and Andy Pettitte (though he's obviously old and battling injuries himself, as Sabathia had to--and Sabathia probably wasn't nearly as truly dominant as he can be until September rolled around), you're probably going to be in decent shape.

Do agree with your general depiction of that division, though. It's more or less up for grabs and it should be fun to watch next year.

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ATL wasn't going to get burned by Texas again like they did in the Teixiera trade.
Exactly what I was thinking and planning to post until I saw your post there, ha.



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post #2393 of 3692 (permalink) Old 11-14-2012, 02:50 AM Thread Starter
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re: 2012 GIANTS...TROUT >

Good deal for the Jays. Going for it.

Formidable roster. Expect them to battle with the Rays for the division title.


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post #2394 of 3692 (permalink) Old 11-14-2012, 08:40 AM
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re: 2012 GIANTS...TROUT >

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Boston has been tied to every Free Agent, man.

Aside from that, word is Rays are interested in Justin Upton. YES PLEASE. I'd give up Shields + more for him.
They won't want Shields. Either Moore or Hellickson as the main piece in the deal

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Yankees starters definitely weren't "great," but, for the most part... They were fairly serviceable, I think. The first half of the season in particular, most of them did quite well for the most part. They were dealt some bad blows via injuries and the like, and Nova seemed to truly, undoubtedly regress (no doubt he's their #5 starter even if his numbers are probably not quite genuinely representative of his talent), but as you say, in a division that isn't really known for its pitching beyond the diamond at Tropicana Field, if you have C.C. Sabathia, Hiroki Kuroda and Andy Pettitte (though he's obviously old and battling injuries himself, as Sabathia had to--and Sabathia probably wasn't nearly as truly dominant as he can be until September rolled around), you're probably going to be in decent shape.

Do agree with your general depiction of that division, though. It's more or less up for grabs and it should be fun to watch next year.
Agreed on the Yanks pitching. In spring training it looked like we had too many starters and injuries took that away quickly. I still don't like having so much age in the rotation, but Kuroda has been consistent, even making the jump to the AL, and if there's a big game you need, there's no one I trust more that Pettite. I don't know what happened to Nova, but if he can even get close to his 2011 numbers, and Pineda comes back healthy, we're straight.


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post #2395 of 3692 (permalink) Old 11-14-2012, 01:00 PM
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re: 2012 GIANTS...TROUT >

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I highly doubt Boston does anything major. They're retooling internally. They just shed all their salary. Shell shock probably keeps them quiet. Baltimore? Who do they have even have that have proven anything before this year?

Drabek, Hutchinson and Morrow all went down in a matter of a week.

Jays pitching was fine until injuries set in. Romero was still winning at that point too (even though still not pitching great).

They have options for 5 (Cecil, Rogers, Villanueva, Happ, etc) or they may look externally
Johnson's a solid piece, as is Morrow. Romero was absolutely awful and it wasn't bad luck. Guy struggled to find the strike zone all year. Buehrle, as I said, was alright, but likely will give up many more gopherballs since he had a 1.16 HR/9 playing many of his starts in a ballpark that allowed less HR than all but 4 stadiums. A lot of question marks on this staff.

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Originally Posted by MrMister View Post
You can win the AL East with average pitching if you knock the shit out of the baseball. Yankees starters weren't that great at all. Boston is in shambles. Baltimore defied pretty much everything and made the playoffs. Rays seem like the team in the best shape going into next season to me. Now the Blue Jays just raised them all.

Obviously games aren't played on paper so who the fuck knows what will actually happen.
No, you need good pitching to be a playoff team. The worst ranked playoff team last year (in terms of ERA) was Texas at 16th. Detroit was the year before at 18th (and that division was just awful) and the year before it was the Yankees at 15th. You can't skate by with just an offense. Toronto has been 9th, 6th, and 13th in scoring in 10/11/12 and finished 4th each year.
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post #2396 of 3692 (permalink) Old 11-14-2012, 01:02 PM
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re: 2012 GIANTS...TROUT >

16th, 15th, 18th is pretty average pitching dude.

I didn't say you can skate by with bad pitching. I said average. You don't need a lights out staff to make into the post season. Now to win the whole thing or advance deep, yeah, you need good pitching obviously.


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post #2397 of 3692 (permalink) Old 11-14-2012, 02:23 PM
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re: 2012 GIANTS...TROUT >

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Originally Posted by abrown0718 View Post
They won't want Shields. Either Moore or Hellickson as the main piece in the deal
I certainly think Arizona would consider a deal based around Shields and a top Minor Leaguer. Highly doubt Tampa would trade Moore in a deal for Upton. Possibly Hellickson, but I still doubt that. The Rays have a ton of young, good pitching, and they'd be aiming to dump the older guys (Shields/Niemann) to open spots in the rotation for youth.
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post #2398 of 3692 (permalink) Old 11-14-2012, 02:41 PM
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re: 2012 GIANTS...TROUT >

Quote:
Originally Posted by Perfect Poster View Post
Johnson's a solid piece, as is Morrow. Romero was absolutely awful and it wasn't bad luck. Guy struggled to find the strike zone all year. Buehrle, as I said, was alright, but likely will give up many more gopherballs since he had a 1.16 HR/9 playing many of his starts in a ballpark that allowed less HR than all but 4 stadiums. A lot of question marks on this staff.
Romero just had elbow surgery. Something he could have had at any point during the season if he wanted to. He's a competitor and didn't want to miss time and since pitching couldn't really make the condition worse it was allowed. It clearly shouldn't have been but injuries had already derailed the season so it doesn't much matter.

Do you really think his season last year is what can be expected of Romero going forward? If you do then I will disagree and we can leave it at that. Next year he needs to be a #3 or #4 starter w/ Buehrle. It's pretty doable as far as I'm concerned. Last year he was expected to be the ace, that isn't the case anymore.

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post #2399 of 3692 (permalink) Old 11-14-2012, 05:38 PM
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re: 2012 GIANTS...TROUT >

So Giancarlo Stanton is unhappy with the Marlins management? They should trade him to the White Sox.

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post #2400 of 3692 (permalink) Old 11-14-2012, 06:33 PM
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re: 2012 GIANTS...TROUT >

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