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post #1751 of 3692 (permalink) Old 08-22-2012, 11:25 PM
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re: 2012 GIANTS...TROUT >

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HERE WE GO

But nah, wins have always been a huge stat when determining the Cy Young winner despite them being arbitrary as fuck.
Felix Hernandez says hello.

And you do realize that the league-leader in wins has only won the Cy Young Award 10 times (that's combining NL and AL) since 2002 right? So, half of the winners haven't led the league in wins. Obviously that means half of them have won, but anyways, it's "important," but it's not the end all be all factor in determining the Cy Young Award winner. (Although I'm not sure if you think that way anyways). A lot of other factors are involved since the BBWAA has finally gotten their heads out of their asses and gotten with the metrics bandwagon.

Again though I can see the argument for Price, and I wouldn't have a problem with it, but, personally I think Verlander is better.



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post #1752 of 3692 (permalink) Old 08-22-2012, 11:31 PM
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re: 2012 GIANTS...TROUT >

King Felix is awesome too. What else?

I'm just saying how it is. Wins are a large factor in the Cy Young voting. I think wins are bullshit too for the most part, but with Price, they aren't.

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post #1753 of 3692 (permalink) Old 08-22-2012, 11:33 PM
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re: 2012 GIANTS...TROUT >

King Felix won it in 09 with a 13-12 record. Wins aren't a factor that they used to be.



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post #1754 of 3692 (permalink) Old 08-22-2012, 11:34 PM
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re: 2012 GIANTS...TROUT >

I'd love to see his season stats. They must have been incredible to counter the lack of wins. There are exceptions.

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post #1755 of 3692 (permalink) Old 08-22-2012, 11:40 PM
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re: 2012 GIANTS...TROUT >

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Originally Posted by MrMister View Post
King Felix is awesome too. What else?

I'm just saying how it is. Wins are a large factor in the Cy Young voting. I think wins are bullshit too for the most part, but with Price, they aren't.
So the Rays having the second best bullpen ERA in MLB (best in the AL) this season, at 2.85, totally exonerates Price from having BS wins?

Bullpens mean a lot more these days and like I said, Price has only had one complete game this year. So 15 of his 'wins' can be credited to the amazing bullpen that the Rays have. (FWIW, Verlander has a league-leading six and the Tigers bullpen is 18th in ERA at 3.78 and 10th (of 14) in the AL))

As for Felix in 2010:
13-12, 2.27 ERA (best in baseball), 34 starts (most in baseball), six complete games, 249.2 IP (most in baseball), 232 K, 70 BB, 174 ERA+, 1.057 WHIP, 7 H/9 (best in baseball), 8.4 K/9, 0.6 HR/9, 2.5 BB/9, 3.31 K/BB. He was pretty damn good and considering that the Seattle pen that year had a 4.23 ERA (which was 11th in the AL) it was awfully impressive.



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post #1756 of 3692 (permalink) Old 08-22-2012, 11:41 PM
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re: 2012 GIANTS...TROUT >

Greinke won it the year before with 16. Lincecum also won it that year with 15 (when the MLB leader was at 19 each). Voters have gotten smarter recently. That's one of the last things considered now.



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post #1757 of 3692 (permalink) Old 08-22-2012, 11:46 PM
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re: 2012 GIANTS...TROUT >

Bullpens have been critical for more than just these days.

What about the bats though? Give me the Tigers over the Rays any day, especially if the Rays don't have Longoria, which they didn't for most of the season.

There are other pitchers that aren't even close to Price that have a good number of wins due to superior run production. That was the unwritten point.

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post #1758 of 3692 (permalink) Old 08-22-2012, 11:47 PM
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re: 2012 GIANTS...TROUT >

If the BBWAA took wins into a great account I feel like CC Sabathia would have more than one Cy Young with how many wins he's tallied in The Bronx.

So... guys, how about the NL? Me:

1. Kershaw
2. Strasburg
3. Cueto or Chapman

The NL is a complete tossup if you ask me though. There's like six contenders.


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Bullpens have been critical for more than just these days.

What about the bats though? Give me the Tigers over the Rays any day, especially if the Rays don't have Longoria, which they didn't for most of the season.

There are other pitchers that aren't even close to Price that have a good number of wins due to superior run production. That was the unwritten point.
Price's Run Support in Wins: 6.025
Verlander's Run Support in Wins: 4.5833 (repeating)

Price's Total Run Support on the Mound (Encompassing W's, L's, and ND's): 4.44
Verlander's Total Run Support on the Mound (Encompassing W's, L's and ND's): 3.52



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post #1759 of 3692 (permalink) Old 08-22-2012, 11:50 PM
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re: 2012 GIANTS...TROUT >

I like Chapman for the NL.

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post #1760 of 3692 (permalink) Old 08-22-2012, 11:55 PM
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re: 2012 GIANTS...TROUT >

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I like Chapman for the NL.
Can't say I wouldn't be surprised. His numbers are out-freaking-rageous. If there's yet another year where a starter doesn't step up to the plate and a reliever could win it, Chapman definitely could do it.



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