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post #541 of 771 (permalink) Old 07-03-2012, 10:37 AM
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Re: Official Rugby League & Rugby Union Thread

Alright morocco, since you want to play the stats game, here we go.

Origin 1, 2012

NSW

Paul Gallen - 33 tackles; 2 missed tackles (94% efficiency); 22 hitups for 230 metres gained @ 10.45/run (80 minutes played)
Robbie Farah - 38 tackles; 2 missed (95% efficiency); 9 hitups for 76 metres gained @ 8.4/run (73 minutes played)
James Tamou - 22 tackles; 0 missed tackles (100% efficiency); 11 hitups for 96 metres gained @ 8.73/run (42 minutes played)
Glenn Stewart - 34 tackles; 4 missed (89% efficiency); 14 hitups for 77 metres gained @ 5.5/run (80 minutes played)
Luke Lewis - 24 tackles; 4 missed (86% effiency); 9 hitups for 66 metres gained @ 7.33/run (56 minutes played)
Greg Bird - 21 tackles; 2 missed (91% effiency); 12 hitups for 122 metres gained @ 10.2/run (57 minutes played)
Trent Merrin - 30 tackles; 0 missed (100% efficiency); 8 hitups for 77 metres gained @ 9.63/run (38 minutes played)
Jamie Buhrer - 5 tackles; 0 missed (100% efficiency); 3 hitups for 18 metres gained @ 6.0/run (7 minutes played)
Ben Creagh - 19 tackles; 0 missed (100% efficiency); 3 hitups for 29 metres gained @ 9.67/run (24 minutes played)
Tony Williams - 7 tackles; 0 missed (100% efficiency); 9 hitups for 56 metres gained @ 6.22/run (23 minutes played)

QLD

Matthew Scott - 36 tackles; 1 missed (97% efficiency); 7 hitups for 55 metres gained @ 7.86/run (48 minutes played)
Cameron Smith - 47 tackles; 4 missed (92% efficiency); 3 hitups for 16 metres gained @ 5.33/run (80 minutes played)
Petero Civoniceva - 20 tackles; 4 missed (83% efficiency); 10 hitups for 78 metres gained @ 7.80/run (39 minutes played)
Nate Myles - 36 tackles; 6 missed (86% efficiency); 11 hitups for 76 metres gained @ 6.91/run (55 minutes played)
Sam Thaiday - 28 tackles; 2 missed (93% efficiency); 9 hitups for 63 metres gained @ 7.00/run (69 minutes played)
Ashley Harrison - 39 tackles; 2 missed (95% efficiency); 15 hitups for 93 metres gained @ 6.20/run (80 minutes played)
Matt Gillett - 7 tackles; 2 missed (78% efficiency); 5 hitups for 35 metres gained @ 7.00/run (17 minutes played)
Dave Taylor - 12 tackles; 1 missed (92% efficiency); 4 hitups for 30 metres gained @ 7.50/run (24 minutes played)
Ben Hannant - 15 tackles; 2 missed (88% efficiency); 9 hitups for 75 metres gained @ 8.33/run (31 minutes played)
David Shillington - 15 tackles; 1 missed (94% efficiency); 9 hitups for 69 metres gained @ 7.67/run (37 minutes played)

------------------------

Origin 2, 2012

NSW

Tim Grant - 26 tackles; 0 missed tackles (100% efficiency); 6 hitups for 58 metres gained @ 9.67/run (27 minutes played)
Robbie Farah - 63 tackles; 0 missed (100% efficiency); 6 hitups for 44 metres gained @ 7.33/run (80 minutes played)
James Tamou - 34 tackles; 1 missed tackles (97% efficiency); 10 hitups for 86 metres gained @ 8.60/run (41 minutes played)
Glenn Stewart - 32 tackles; 4 missed (89% efficiency); 8 hitups for 55 metres gained @ 6.88/run (58 minutes played)
Greg Bird - 32 tackles; 6 missed (84% effiency); 18 hitups for 147 metres gained @ 8.17/run (70 minutes played)
Paul Gallen - 36 tackles; 5 missed (88% effiency); 19 hitups for 147 metres gained @ 7.74/run (71 minutes played)
Trent Merrin - 20 tackles; 1 missed (95% efficiency); 3 hitups for 29 metres gained @ 9.67/run (21 minutes played)
Luke Lewis - 29 tackles; 4 missed (88% efficiency); 12 hitups for 86 metres gained @ 7.17/run (58 minutes played)
Ben Creagh - 15 tackles; 1 missed (94% efficiency); 3 hitups for 25 metres gained @ 8.33/run (28 minutes played)
Anthony Watmough - 14 tackles; 2 missed (88% efficiency); 9 hitups for 79 metres gained @ 8.78/run (26 minutes played)

QLD

Matthew Scott - 22 tackles; 4 missed (85% efficiency); 15 hitups for 159 metres gained @ 10.60/run (43 minutes played)
Cameron Smith - 44 tackles; 2 missed (96% efficiency); 6 hitups for 44 metres gained @ 7.33/run (80 minutes played)
Petero Civoniceva - 21 tackles; 2 missed (91% efficiency); 14 hitups for 106 metres gained @ 7.57/run (38 minutes played)
Nate Myles - 50 tackles; 5 missed (91% efficiency); 13 hitups for 90 metres gained @ 6.92/run (72 minutes played)
Dave Taylor - 19 tackles; 3 missed (86% efficiency); 7 hitups for 60 metres gained @ 8.57/run (47 minutes played)
Ashley Harrison - 25 tackles; 3 missed (89% efficiency); 16 hitups for 115 metres gained @ 7.19/run (80 minutes played)
Matt Gillett - 21 tackles; 2 missed (91% efficiency); 4 hitups for 21 metres gained @ 5.25/run (46 minutes played)
Corey Parker - 9 tackles; 2 missed (82% efficiency); 3 hitups for 35 metres gained @ 11.67/run (8 minutes played)
Ben Hannant - 22 tackles; 4 missed (85% efficiency); 5 hitups for 32 metres gained @ 6.40/run (24 minutes played)
David Shillington - 19 tackles; 1 missed (95% efficiency); 17 hitups for 157 metres gained @ 9.24/run (42 minutes played)

-------------------------------

Let me now combine the 2 games together:

Robbie Farah - 101 tackles; 2 missed (98% efficiency); 15 hitups for 120 metres gained @ 8.0/run (153 minutes played)
Paul Gallen - 69 tackles; 7 missed tackles (91% efficiency); 41 hitups for 377 metres gained @ 9.20/run (151 minutes played)
Glenn Stewart - 66 tackles; 8 missed (89% efficiency); 22 hitups for 132 metres gained @ 6.00/run (138 minutes played)
James Tamou - 56 tackles; 1 missed tackles (98% efficiency); 21 hitups for 182 metres gained @ 8.67/run (83 minutes played)
Luke Lewis - 53 tackles; 8 missed (87% effiency); 21 hitups for 152 metres gained @ 7.24/run (114 minutes played)
Greg Bird - 53 tackles; 8 missed (87% effiency); 30 hitups for 269 metres gained @ 8.97/run (127 minutes played)
Trent Merrin - 50 tackles; 1 missed (98% efficiency); 11 hitups for 106 metres gained @ 9.64/run (59 minutes played)
Ben Creagh - 34 tackles; 1 missed (97% efficiency); 6 hitups for 54 metres gained @ 9.0/run (52 minutes played)
Tim Grant - 26 tackles; 0 missed tackles (100% efficiency); 6 hitups for 58 metres gained @ 9.67/run (27 minutes played)
Anthony Watmough - 14 tackles; 2 missed (88% efficiency); 9 hitups for 79 metres gained @ 8.78/run (26 minutes played)
Tony Williams - 7 tackles; 0 missed (100% efficiency); 9 hitups for 56 metres gained @ 6.22/run (23 minutes played)
Jamie Buhrer - 5 tackles; 0 missed (100% efficiency); 3 hitups for 18 metres gained @ 6.0/run (7 minutes played)

Cameron Smith - 91 tackles; 6 missed (94% efficiency); 9 hitups for 60 metres gained @ 6.67/run (160 minutes played)
Nate Myles - 86 tackles; 11 missed (89% efficiency); 24 hitups for 166 metres gained @ 6.92/run (127 minutes played)
Ashley Harrison - 64 tackles; 5 missed (93% efficiency); 31 hitups for 208 metres gained @ 6.71/run (160 minutes played)
Matthew Scott - 58 tackles; 5 missed (92% efficiency); 22 hitups for 214 metres gained @ 9.73/run (91 minutes played)
Petero Civoniceva - 41 tackles; 6 missed (87% efficiency); 24 hitups for 184 metres gained @ 7.67/run (77 minutes played)
Ben Hannant - 37 tackles; 6 missed (86% efficiency); 14 hitups for 107 metres gained @ 7.64/run (55 minutes played)
David Shillington - 34 tackles; 2 missed (94% efficiency); 26 hitups for 226 metres gained @ 8.69/run (79 minutes played)
Dave Taylor - 31 tackles; 4 missed (89% efficiency); 11 hitups for 90 metres gained @ 8.18/run (71 minutes played)
Sam Thaiday - 28 tackles; 2 missed (93% efficiency); 9 hitups for 63 metres gained @ 7.00/run (69 minutes played)
Matt Gillett - 28 tackles; 4 missed (88% efficiency); 9 hitups for 56 metres gained @ 6.22/run (63 minutes played)
Corey Parker - 9 tackles; 2 missed (82% efficiency); 3 hitups for 35 metres gained @ 11.67/run (8 minutes played)

Right, so that's the stats from Origin 1 and Origin 2. Now, based on your stats, morocco, and your selection for international footy being based on the 'form origin players,' and your defensive fetish, then our forward pack would look like:

Myles; Farah; Scott; G.Stewart; Harrison; Gallen; Int: Tamou; Lewis; Bird; Merrin

Now, can you seriously suggest that Farah should be Australia's hooker ahead of Cameron Smith? Nate Myles as prop ahead of Petero? Harrison in the 2nd row ahead of Thaiday? Merrin on the bench instead of Shillington? No, you can't, and that's why statistics, when they're all broken down and done with, mean absolutely squat when it comes to onfield intangibles and influence on the field in both attack and defence. Which is the argument that Rush has provided to you, but you've shot back with your stats nonsense that doesn't sway your argument at all.

NB: All stats were calculated from Big League match reports in the Round 13 and Round 16 edition, so check them if you must
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post #542 of 771 (permalink) Old 07-03-2012, 10:59 AM
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Re: Official Rugby League & Rugby Union Thread

jfc how long did it take you track all that down Mav?

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post #543 of 771 (permalink) Old 07-03-2012, 11:09 AM
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Re: Official Rugby League & Rugby Union Thread

About 5 minutes to find my past issues of the magazine, and about 10 minutes to put the stats together
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post #544 of 771 (permalink) Old 07-04-2012, 12:44 PM
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Re: Official Rugby League & Rugby Union Thread

1) How did Tate not get sinbinned for punching Bird when he was being held down by 2 blokes. No consistancy at all which is a joke.

2) How on earth can you call Hodges try legal? Its beyond a joke now.

aside from those incidents it was an excellent game but its really really deflating when key calls continually go to the Maroons.

short notes on the players;

Stewart had a solid game, good work on the try but aside from that he didn't really spark anything.
Morris brothers played absolute blinders, easily NSW's best 2 players.
Hayne was quiet as was Jennings.
Carney was solid but nothing spectacular.
Pearce should never ever ever ever ever ever get selected again. Had an absolute shocker, his kicking game was utterly woeful and it says a lot about our halves when Farah had to take over the kicking duties to set up tries. He also missed a tackle on Thurston in the lead up to Thurston's try. his defense in general was poor, as was carney's.
Farah, had a solid game in attack, worked well to set up 2 tries.
Tamou, had a good solid game. Was good in attack and was one of the few forwards to give a bit of go forward.
Grant, average game from Grant. Nothing spectacular.
Gallen, had a good game as usual. Made his metres.
Bird; always a niggler, he gave the Blues some aggro but couldn't get too much going.
Scott; why did this joker get picked again?
Lewis, had a good game. Gave us some energy off the bench.
Creagh; useless.
Watmough, made a lot of tackles and a lot of hitups in the first half when he came on. looked to be struggling a bit with his shoulder/neck
Williams, had a shocker.


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post #545 of 771 (permalink) Old 07-04-2012, 05:52 PM
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Re: Official Rugby League & Rugby Union Thread

I'm sorry your team lost, Rush.

It was a really fun game to watch though.


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post #546 of 771 (permalink) Old 07-05-2012, 07:28 AM
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Re: Official Rugby League & Rugby Union Thread

Quote:
Pearce should never ever ever ever ever ever get selected again. Had an absolute shocker, his kicking game was utterly woeful and it says a lot about our halves when Farah had to take over the kicking duties to set up tries. He also missed a tackle on Thurston in the lead up to Thurston's try. his defense in general was poor, as was carney's.
THIS.

Maloney should get the chance next year. I said all along you'll never win anything with Pearce as your halfback, and I'm yet to be proven wrong

Fuck you, you banana benders. Heart breaking game to watch in the end after some promise. Hayne's reaction summed it up when he went down, that's the pain we all had at the end.

***

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post #547 of 771 (permalink) Old 07-05-2012, 10:25 PM
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Re: Official Rugby League & Rugby Union Thread

Heard a few people saying Peter Wallace should be the NSW 7 next year...god help us if he's the best halfback we can find.
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post #548 of 771 (permalink) Old 07-05-2012, 10:32 PM
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Re: Official Rugby League & Rugby Union Thread

He's better than Pearce. Not like that's saying anything tho.

Also think Adam Reynolds, the Souths halfback is NSW eligible, maybe him.

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post #549 of 771 (permalink) Old 07-06-2012, 12:27 AM
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Re: Official Rugby League & Rugby Union Thread

If Reynolds is eligible, which i'm 99% sure he is, then fuck yes have him as our #7. Wallace, my goodness, he's so shit it's unbelievable - he did nothing at Penrith, was shined up by pairing with Lockyer and now Norman, and gets all this praise and admiration from god knows where. An absolute hack whose origin appearances were awful. At least Pearce offers something.

-----------------------

Given the past month's formline, tonight's game is going to be ugly for us, especially missing Farah. It'll be the Dogs by at least 18

------------------------

Carter and Dagg are back for the Crusaders tonight, going to be a cracker of a game. If the Crusaders can get a bonus point win they'll still have a sniff at conference champions, but a win regardless secures a finals position.
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post #550 of 771 (permalink) Old 07-07-2012, 03:36 AM
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Re: Official Rugby League & Rugby Union Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by sXe_Maverick View Post
Johnson over Gallen? , you're joking, right? Thou shalt not feed the troll
Before posting in reply to one of my posts, please consider what I have actually written. I did say from 2006. Johnson would have cemented his spot; Gallen would have still been giving stupid penalties away. Keep in mind, heís really only matured as a player over the last few years. Now, Iíd pick both.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Rush View Post
1. Yes you did.
The only thing you can accuse me of is assuming that all posters are as stats focused as I am. I just assume posters know how to look at stats, knowing what they want in a player. I never used the word comparison when I posted both stats together. Ashtonís arenít far off 110m 20t 2mt Ė which is what I look for from a debuting prop, while Tariqís donít even deserve any consideration (as a brackrower). I'd simply look and dismiss them.

Quote:
2. Hasn't played there for ages.
Thatís not a problem. For example, there was a lot of recent thought about Tolman being too small for prop (103kg). I would have had no issues with him in the back row. Youíre giving up a bit of mobility, but his workrate is excellent.

Quote:
Yes and sometimes players are picked for intangibles....
Notice I used the word deserve. IMO you must have some notion of a criteria under which a player is judged. You canít say Tariqís stats are crap, but he does offer intangibles. There, youíre talking about selecting a player on potential or perceived skillset, not what heís already achieved. The latter looks at who deserves what, the former doesn't.

Quote:
...Why do you think Petero has been picked for Queensland? His stats are atrocious this year and he's definitely on the decline as a player. Haven't heard you questioning his selection, why is that? Nothing he offers is statistically relevant, how come you haven't wanted him dropped?
And you never will. Why? Heís always produced. Donít worry about club level, donít worry what Myles, Harrison etc. are doing at club level (not that there club numbers aren't good), when they play rep football (they're proven), they produce. Civo didnít deserve to get dropped. Sheens is a moron.

Conversely, a few weeks ago, Hodges was averaging 0.8 mistackles a game + like youíve said, he can create his own attack Ė but heís been a turnstile in Origin over the last two series. This last game, he missed a staggering 9 tackles! That's disgraceful. He canít deal with Jennings turn of foot, so you get pathetic jumper grabs all the time. He looks gassed. Like I said, Tate > Hodges. I have no problem with Graham debuting outside Tate. Itíd be preferable.

Quote:
You think Pearce offers much in attack? You think Stewart offers as much as a Slater or an Inglis?
Are these rhetorical? Well, no + one can argue that Stewart is much, much safer than both.



Quote:
Origin is the pinnicle. How hard is that for you to grasp? Your club performances feed into Origin selection. Thats what you work hard for, thats why you put the effort in. If playing for your country is so important why do we have Kiwis changing allegances to play for Queensland and NSW? because international rugby league means fuck all. Until New Zealand and England can lift their game then international football will remain poor.
Iím not arguing which is superior. My point is simply that Origin should act as a trial for Australian selection. I donít exactly know the details, but the Australian team has actually been picked immediately following the Origin series.


Quote:
You said Gallen's numbers don't compare to Parker's. You have posted in this thread with your justification for players abilty being stats. Its a logical assumption then when you say no one's numbers can be compared to parker's that you consider him a better player.
Not necessarily. Iíd say nobody plays both sides of the game at his level, purely because heís in the top echelon in attacking and defensive numbers. Gallen is streets ahead in attack, but there are a fair few players returning high 20s in tackles per game.

Quote:
Dallas Johnson over Gallen, are you on crack? You claim to have no queensland bias? are you fucking kidding me?
Read what I've written.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sXe_Maverick View Post
Alright morocco, since you want to play the stats game, here we go...

Right, so that's the stats from Origin 1 and Origin 2. Now, based on your stats, morocco, and your selection for international footy being based on the 'form origin players,' and your defensive fetish, then our forward pack would look like:

Myles; Farah; Scott; G.Stewart; Harrison; Gallen; Int: Tamou; Lewis; Bird; Merrin

Now, can you seriously suggest that Farah should be Australia's hooker ahead of Cameron Smith? Nate Myles as prop ahead of Petero? Harrison in the 2nd row ahead of Thaiday? Merrin on the bench instead of Shillington? No, you can't, and that's why statistics, when they're all broken down and done with, mean absolutely squat when it comes to onfield intangibles and influence on the field in both attack and defence...
How about giving me credit for telling you where to find stats?

Quote:
Which is the argument that Rush has provided to you, but you've shot back with your stats nonsense that doesn't sway your argument at all.
Actually, it does if you know what you are looking for. Stewart? Are you kidding me? He averages 4 per game mistackles. Tackles missed make or break a player, for me. You can bring Myles into this but a) he's a PROVEN Origin performer b) he was a much cleaner defender c) let me know when Stewart makes 50 tackles in Origin.

Maverick, Iíll ask you to take your form junkie hat off. You get far too excited (as with the Adam Reynolds over Thurston argument). I consider factors such as: performance over a long period of time, incumbency, rep over club. Even without too much thought, I already know my team woud be:

1. Slater
2. Boyd
3. Tate
4. Inglis
5. Stewart Ė has played on the wing against NZ, no right sided winger that I can think of deserves spot.
6. Thurston
7. Cronk
8. Scott
9. Smith
10. Civoniceva
11. Harrison
12. Gallen
13. Johnson
14. Thaiday
15. Myles
16. Hannant
17. Shillington

18. B.Morris
19. J.Morris
20. Farah
21. Bird
22. Parker
23. Tamou

26/ 11/ 06
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