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Official Rugby League & Rugby Union Thread

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#1 ·
Well, I never saw an official thread started for Rugby. So I thought I'd start one. I'm not even sure if they are any fans of Rugby on the forum but if they are, here is a discussion thread for Rugby now 8*D.

- All Talk about Rugby League & Union goes in here.
 
#594 ·
You're clearly having trouble grasping the concept here. The subject was origin being a selection trial for international football. My post was clearly about that. One being that it isn't used as a selection trial, and two, i don't care either way. You, in your stupidity took that to mean i was taking a contrary position to yours which is false. You then spent time arguing against that opinion. Again, remove your head from your ass, read and understand what has been posted and either reply, or move on.

You clearly haven't been taught basic English skills but that doesn't surprise me as you don't watch the game in which you comment on. Not every one of my posts is in direct opposition to yours.
 
#595 ·
You're clearly having trouble grasping the concept here. The subject was origin being a selection trial for international football. My post was clearly about that. One being that it isn't used as a selection trial, and two, i don't care either way. You, in your stupidity took that to mean i was taking a contrary position to yours which is false. You then spent time arguing against that opinion. Again, remove your head from your ass, read and understand what has been posted and either reply, or move on.
Basically, you’re saying you’re a douche. Why are you stating the obvious? How about enlightening those other two buddies of yours by telling them that SOO has served as a selection trial, with the Australian team picked immediately after the final game? Could it be because you’re a punk kid, who hasn't seen anything?


You clearly haven't been taught basic English skills but that doesn't surprise me as you don't watch the game in which you comment on. Not every one of my posts is in direct opposition to yours.
I find it quite bothersome that you think someone with my knowledge of the game doesn’t actually watch it. How can that be?
 
#597 ·
Enough with the condescending bullshit you muppet. You have no working knowledge of the game and you would probably bend over and take one from David Middleton if you could. You have no undertsanding of positions, team dynamics, or any intangibles associated with players as you are only focused on statistical analysis of a couple of parameters that are involved with Rugby League.

If you picked a side, it would be the most boring side out. Its easy selecting a side when you can have a spine of Slater, Cronk, Thurston, and Smith. Who would you pick for the NSW side?
 
#600 ·
Nah, i just know that you need to have a balanced side. All of your opinions on forwards are with a Queensland backline bias. Yeah, if i had a side with a backline like Queensland's then by all means pick blokes who are defensive machines. To put it in perspective NSW's halfback is Mitchell Pearce who by STATS (i know you love them) can't crack the top 10 hafbacks in the competition. So you need balance in that side to compensate for that. You need more ball playing forwards when your halfback can't create anything. You have no concept of that though. You have no discernable concept of what it requires to build a side.
 
#601 ·
PENRITH Panthers and Australian Test star Luke Lewis has confirmed he has signed a four-year deal with the Cronulla Sharks.

Lewis rang the Sharks this morning to confirm he would be taking up their offer.

He also also telephoned rival clubs Newcastle, West Tigers and Parramatta to inform them he had signed elsewhere.

Cronulla will hold a press conference at 2pm to confirm their new signing.

It is believed the four-year deal could be worth as much as $1.8 million

The tug of war for Lewis's services started after he was released from his Penrith contract two weeks ago after claiming he needed a fresh start.

It had been reported that Lewis didn't believe he was considered part of Penrith's future under the regime of Phil Gould and new coach Ivan Cleary.

Speculation about his future started when he was stripped of the Panthers captaincy while on Origin duty.

Paul Gallen said yesterday he would happily relinquish his title as Cronulla's highest-paid player if it meant getting Lewis to the Sharks.

"It's about winning. If other people earn more money than me then that's fine," Gallen said on Thursday.

"If (getting Lewis to the club) means he earns more money than me then I don't care.

"Toddy (Carney's) probably earning more money than me.

"My contract's been done for almost 12 months now and I won't be changing it or extending it or leaving early.

"I'm more than happy with my contract and where's it's at."

Lewis and his wife went on a real estate tour of the Sutherland Shire on Wednesday.
Lewis off to the Sharks. They'll have a pretty boss side in 2013.
 
#607 ·
Halves create, that’s the primary task of their job. If you don’t have that, you need to look elsewhere.
Alright i'll stop you there. You said earlier in your post that NSW should basically stack their side with guys that are defensive machines. In the exact same post you say that if you have halves that can't create you need to look elsewhere. The two points are at odds with each other when our best halfback is Pearce. Wallace isn't much better either.

This is what i'm talking about when you have no idea on anything else other than the bare stats you see in front of you. You can't stack your side with ball playing forwards, or stack it with guys who only run on the edges or only run it through the middle. NSW needs to pick blokes who may not have the best statistical output in terms of tackles made compared to missed, but can compensate for the lack of originality and playmaking in the halves.

Its why guys like Tony Williams get selected even when not playing too much club football, he has the ability to create something out of nothing. Queensland can afford to play Myles, Harrison, Parker as a back row, they don;t need those guys to do anything other than defend the line and make the tough metres to get it out of their end of the park. They know that Cronk, Thurston, Smith, Slater or Inglis will make the right plays when in attack.

NSW selected Stewart, Carney, Pearce and Farah. Of those Stewart is getting up in age, is injury prone and i don't think he's good enough anymore especially when Hayne is getting wasted on the wing, and Dugan who is a player we can build around for the future isn't getting a look in. Carney is fine, he needs more time to show he can handle the pressure. Farah surprised me and was NSW's best player for much of the series but Pearce is an utter donkey. He can't defend, he can't create, his kicking game is mediocre and he's not a strong ball runner either. He is an average NRL quality half, but when you have a guy like him in your side then you need to have other creative players hence Stewart, Williams, Watmough in the back row. Being a Manly fan i watch them week in week out and while they all give away far too many penalties and miss too many tackles they more than make up for it in attack.

And in spite of all that they got mightily close to beating the Queenslanders anyway. Even while having the poorer team on paper, they still almost got the series win. My whole argument with you is that stats only tell half the story, yet you rely entirely on them, and your own statistical judgement on what a player must statistically achieve.
 
#608 ·
Okay, then I won’t use stats to support any of what I’m about to say. The point about looking elsewhere is referring to coming up with the best attacking combination in the halves, not finding other avenues of attack. Earlier in this thread, we discussed Campese/Carney. I also think Wallace is completely underrated in setting up the attack – kicking game, organising runners and decoys, picking out weak defenders around which to focus the point of attack. Even with Lockyer, we employed the system that most teams do where they exclusively use one half on each side of the field. There, we’re looking at him being responsible for half of the team’s attack. Cast your mind to when he was unavailable through injury, how poor did Locky look?

Tony Williams is a defensive liability. He’s the "right play/s in attack" for Cronk, Thurston, Smith, Slater and Inglis. Picking these players is taking one step forward, two steps back.

Hayne makes poor reads in defence. He simply isn’t a winger. If you are looking to maximise your attacking output, you’d clearly play him ahead of Stewart at FB. His long kicking game would also take pressure off of the halves.

I’m not suggesting you stick with Pearce, but you have to factor in growth and continuity issues. One would suggest the team is comfortable playing with him. You are compromising the dynamics of the established group by ousting him and seeking a new playmaker. That's the kind of thing you're usually peddling.
 
#609 ·
Wallace is complete and utter shit being pedlle pushed by Brisbane fanboys as something he isn't. As I said earlier, NSW should run with Reynolds as our #7, he could get a great partnership going with Carney, and Reynolds is a great attacking creator and very sound in defence.

In regards to Parra beating Melbourne, that'll do me. Storm sorely need Slater back to return to the winning ways.
 
#610 ·
I wanted Carney/Maloney. Both play 5/8th but as you said, it doesn't matter a great deal when you have playmakers generally staying to one side of the field. Both are brilliant with the ball in hand, and maloney has a very very good attacking kicking game.

What Williams lacks in defense, is offset by his attack. If you have a good defender like Josh Morris on his outside then he's not really much of a liability.

I really want to see Dugan at FB and Hayne at wing, until another properly good winger comes along. If Uate could learn how to defend he'd be be there for sure with Hayne at FB. Stewart as much as i love him has lost so much pace with his knee injuries which means he's more exposed when opposition sides make a break. Excellent in attack but again, loss of pace is really noticable.

Pearce has had 9 games in which to make an impact. I don't mind leaving a guy in for an entire series, but if they don't make a huge impact then you got to ask yourself is he the right guy. Its not about dropping a guy after one bad performance or picking the new flavour of the week/month/year etc. Pearce has been in there long enough to settle, make an impact and make the jersey his own but he hasn't done it.
 
#611 ·
Maloney, unfortunately, is very very bad in defence. I’m not saying he wouldn’t spark something in attack, but I honestly feel Wallace is almost like killing two birds with one stone. As far as I’m concerned, he has proven that he can guide a team around the park as well as any halfback in the game, particularly when the team he’s guiding is Brisbane. Add to that the fact that he actually strengthens your defence (a bonus), and he’s an attractive proposition. IMO he was dropped far too soon, especially when he delivered a win with a sound performance opposite Bird (a guy I consider a runner, not ball player).

Stewart could be moved to the wing outside a solid two-way centre. He’s good under the high ball, and will stick with his man. As I said earlier, he handled the position quite well against the Kiwis a few years ago. Dugan strikes me as someone QLD would pick. I still think Hayne is a defensive liability on the wing. I’m suggesting moving him to FB, but a whole host of new problems surface if you are of the belief that the FB is instrumental in calling and setting a line (kind of like the team’s eye from the back). Actually, a few years ago I compared Hunt to Slater. At the time, QLD had win 33% of games with Slater at FB. These teams averaged something like 22 points against. Hunt at FB yielded 5 out of 6 wins, with fewer than 10 points against!

Personally, I wouldn’t call Josh Morris a good defender. The guy doesn’t have a big workload at club level. But he did surprise me in game 2 (19 tackles, 1 mistackle). He handled Inglis. It doesn’t matter what he does at club level with performances like that. And he clearly offers far more in attack than other options. All he has to do is maintain his defence at rep level.

I fear dropping Pearce is like resetting the team. It could set you back 3 years. Also, he’s only just revived his partnership with Carney. Having said that, I don’t know how long you can persist. IMO Stuart will not drop Pearce.
 
#613 ·
Daley is a poor choice as coach. I don’t see him as the X/O guy that Henry was & he doesn’t have Meninga’s aura. If I were in charge, I’d have the situation look like this:

NSW Head Coach: Des Hasler
NSW Assistant Coach/City Coach: Jim Dymock
NSW Assistant Coach/Country Coach: Geoff Toovey

It’s a massive undertaking for all involved, but that’s the kind of structure that I could certainly get behind. I don’t necessarily feel a fulltime coach is essential.

I don’t see how Pearce is better than Wallace at anything. If we lose Wallace, we’re fucked. He’s a huge part of the team, and he’s proven that with and without Locky. He’s our most important player by the greatest of margins. I find it funny that a fair few Brisbane fans don’t even rate him. He's always the scapegoat. If I’m a rival club, I’d offer $400-450k for his services (we did re-sign him, though). Norman looks to be right at home, but let’s make no mistake that Wallace is the architect. As for Reynolds, give him time. I think you’re crazy to be interested in him after less than one season of first grade in such a vital position.
 
#614 ·
NSWRL won't allow a club coach to be rep coach so no Hasler or Toovey.

The upside of Maloney far outweighs the negatives imo. Pearce isn't a good defender himself and isn't much in attack.

I'd offer Wallace nowhere near 450k unless the cap rose heaps. Although if you pay Sandow 500+ then Wallace is easily worth at least that (lolparra).

I'd love Foran to fuck NZ off, and come play for NSW. Carney/Foran would solve the issue of attack vs defense in a half as pound for pound Foran is one of the hardest hitters in the game.

Josh Morris is a good-great defender, and an excellent attacker imo.

Hayne needs to play fullback, he's wasted on the wing. I'd rather not have Stewart in the side, purely b/c he's so key to us at club level and physically he's breaking down and is already on a permanant reduced training schedule.
 
#615 ·
Except that the NSW role should be fulltime and Des won't quit fulltime for origin.

Ben Hunt is better than Wallace, Wallace is a complete and utter hack who Penrith were glad to be rid of. He pulls off one good play a month and gets rated to the moon by the Queensland media and ex-Broncos players. He's fucking useless. Paying anywhere over 200k a season for a hack like him means the club is void of intellect and financial smarts
 
#616 ·
Maloney is better than Pearce, but is he better than Pearce + the experience of the team as a whole since Pearce became the HB? It’s a tough one. I think a new coach could make the move. Whenever the 6 and 7 link up, I would still prefer to see Maloney playing deeper. It might seem odd saying this now, but don’t be surprised if lights go on in the coaching staff’s minds when they see Maloney and Pearce play together for the Roosters, especially if SBW joins and makes their task easier.

If Parra had made that deal + resurrected Carney’s career, they’d have a spine that I would happily play in SOO. It would boost NSW chances having them at club level. Parra wouldn’t be in the position they are now.

I’m not sure if Foran was available when NZ went for Johnson, but that’s a big mistake. Foran has shown that he’s exactly what Benji needs at rep level. SJ plays the similar sort of off-the-cuff style to Benji, while Foran has shown great control and a deft kicking game.

Last time I checked, Morris was doing less than 10 tackles a game. That simply isn’t any kind of workload to qualify as solid defender (Jennings was doing the same). In game 3, he did the same. Game 1, he made 15 but missed 5.

Stewart used to be bloody quick. I’d say easily one of the quickest players I’ve seen, and I’m talking about guys like Oudenryn, Offiah, Whereat, Joven Clarke and Matt Rieck when making that statement. He was deceptively quick.
 
#618 ·
yeah Stewart used to be blinding. His reads in defense weren't great but his pace easily made up for it and he could get into gaps before the defense knew there was a gap. Now that he's done done both knees and picked up more injuries he's lost a few yards of pace and isn't even the quickest in our side. Whare and Oldfield both outpace him.

Foran was injured for the last lot of rep games. He's their first choice halfback when fit. If Johnson matures a bit more and learn when to turn on and off the razzle dazzle and miracle balls then he'll be brilliant for them. He's too similar to Benji though as of right now.

Morris misses a lot of his tackles on a kick chase/players coming out of their ingoal. Not as many during normal play, but he reads the game well as a centre. Knows when to come in and when to slide which Uate in game one had no concept of. When he played with Hayne in Origin 3 then they were able to defend as a unit.

@sXe Ben Hunt is utter shite as a half. Wallace is way better.
 
#619 ·
I maintain my point that Wallace is complete and utter shit. Same category as Mullen really - sorely overrated based off a few special moments in games. They offer absolutely nothing and are glossended by better players around them and a forward pack who can chew up metres for them. You look at guys like Cronk, Thurston, Marshall etc, they can create from nothing and don't need that boost.

Yes, Ben Hunt.
 
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