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Old 02-26-2012, 02:58 AM   #101 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official Rugby League & Rugby Union Thread

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Originally Posted by sXe_Maverick View Post
I posted my comment just after halftime. Of course Italy were going to get mauled, they can't compete for 80 minutes. If they could, they would have beaten England last fortnight, rather than lose at the end.

Far from a farce, it was inconclusive to see if the ball was down or not, and no angle that I saw showed the ball being placed over the line.

With Wales facing Italy in Cardiff next up, it may well come down to a Wales/France game to decide the champions. All depends how the French handle Ireland and England in the next 2 fixtures.
There was no question that Strettle got over the line watching it live, and the slow-mo footage clearly shows Strettle grounding the ball out the back of his hand, way before the ball is bought back the other side of the line by the Welsh player as shown in the close up shots. Just because there was no birds eye view of it doesn't mean some common sense couldn't be applied, you could see live on the tv it was a try, it was a woeful piece of officiating.
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Old 02-26-2012, 02:59 AM   #102 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official Cricket Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by sXe_Maverick View Post
Lance Thompson? Please, oh please, select Queensland side this year.
Sure, let me get it out of the way.

1. Slater
2. Boyd (l)
3. Inglis (l)
4. Tate (r)
5. Yow Yeh (r)
6. Thurston
7. Cronk
8. Scott
9. Smith
10. Civoniceva
11. Harrison (l)
12. Thaiday (r)
13. Johnson

14. Ballin
15. Myles (better team balance with Thaiday starting + Myles returning to a familiar role off the bench)
16. Shillington
17. Hannant

Maybe I should take a stab at picking the NSW side instead.

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Originally Posted by Rush View Post
Watmough and Stewart are turnstiles? turn it up son, 2nd best defense in the league, and premiers for the 2nd time in 4 years on the back of the work they do.
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Originally Posted by sXe_Maverick View Post
Yes, won in the forwards off the work of Scott, Petero & Thaiday. Harrison is garbage - was for Souths, is for Gold Coast and Queensland. He's fortunate to be selected in a great team, but is a shit player. Myles is the same...
Okay, sirs, letís have a look. There was once a great stats based website... but I donít know what happened to it. For last seasonís stats, we might have to wait until this weekís Big League. For this task, Iím considering stats from the 2010 season, thatís not the most recent season but the season prior (culminating in a win to the Dragons over the Roosters).

Thaiday 30. 1 tackles per game, 66 mistackles for the season + 21 errors, 9 penalties
Stewart 33. 7 tackles, 66 mistackles + 19 errors, 16 penalties

Both these guys are about average. Myles had similar defensive stats at 31.8 and 59.

Harrison 35.6 tackles, 36 mistackles + 8 errors, 10 penalties

Watmough 24.4 tackles, 87 mistackles + 35 errors, 21 penalties Seriously?

Watmough had the fourth most missed tackles of any forward, with only De Gois , Luke and Bird doing worse. Luke was averaging a shocking 7 missed tackles per game for the first handful of games. Only Farah and Bird had more errors for a forward than Watmough.

Two other NSW reps in Lewis and Bird are also noted weak defenders.

Lewis Ė only 25.2 tackles, 77 mistackles. I know for a fact that Lewis had been averaging above 3 mistackles per game for the past 3 seasons. Thatís a weakness in his game thatís seldom highlighted.
Bird Ė a meagre 14.8 tackles, 90 mistackles!
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Old 02-26-2012, 03:23 AM   #103 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official Rugby League & Rugby Union Thread

2010 was the worst season Watmough has played in years. His best work is on attack regardless, and i thought Stewart was a turnstile? Again best work on attack (plays as a 2nd 5/8th) and yet his defensive numbers are comparable to Myles and Harrison (they play in different positions as well.)
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Old 02-26-2012, 03:39 AM   #104 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official Rugby League & Rugby Union Thread

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Stewart... his defensive numbers are comparable to Harrison (they play in different positions as well.)
Are you reading the same thing I am? Managing your mistackles is a major, major part of the game. There is a huge difference between 1 and 2 mistackles a game. The latter is twice as many mistackles over the course of a season. Harrison and Stewart weren't comparable in any way. As for Watmough, support your statement with stats. Heís always been a poor defender. As for your different positions argument, donít bother. Harrison has played wider, and defensively mopped up through the middle. Watmough is mainly deployed wider because he's a liability.
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Old 02-26-2012, 03:52 AM   #105 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official Rugby League & Rugby Union Thread

Was never a try at the end, good decision.

Love it when England get beat.
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Old 02-26-2012, 04:05 AM   #106 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official Rugby League & Rugby Union Thread

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There was no question that Strettle got over the line watching it live, and the slow-mo footage clearly shows Strettle grounding the ball out the back of his hand, way before the ball is bought back the other side of the line by the Welsh player as shown in the close up shots. Just because there was no birds eye view of it doesn't mean some common sense couldn't be applied, you could see live on the tv it was a try, it was a woeful piece of officiating.
We must be watching different footage. His arm went across the line, he attempted to place the ball, but a Welsh arm was blocking the ball from hitting the ground, then it was pushed back into the ruck where it hit the ground on the try line. It was not a try.

However, I was a little surprised that England didn't get a scrum from the penalty advantage I'm sure I heard them receive about 10 seconds prior to the backline movement. Unless the officials deemed that using the advantage, then who knows.
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Old 02-26-2012, 04:14 AM   #107 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official Rugby League & Rugby Union Thread

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We must be watching different footage. His arm went across the line, he attempted to place the ball, but a Welsh arm was blocking the ball from hitting the ground, then it was pushed back into the ruck where it hit the ground on the try line. It was not a try.

However, I was a little surprised that England didn't get a scrum from the penalty advantage I'm sure I heard them receive about 10 seconds prior to the backline movement. Unless the officials deemed that using the advantage, then who knows.
He did place the ball out the back of his hand before the Welsh arm pushed it back/got under it.

http://i43.tinypic.com/29g2yq.png

Not sure if you can see the video in the link below but if you can you'll see they're clearly over the line when that happens:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/17169125

Hell even if you can't, you can see in the screenshot his foot is only just on the other side of the line, and he's laying on his back fully stretched out, which puts a good 2 metres between where his ball is and the line.
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Old 02-26-2012, 04:37 AM   #108 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official Rugby League & Rugby Union Thread

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Are you reading the same thing I am? Managing your mistackles is a major, major part of the game. There is a huge difference between 1 and 2 mistackles a game. The latter is twice as many mistackles over the course of a season. Harrison and Stewart weren't comparable in any way. As for Watmough, support your statement with stats. Heís always been a poor defender. As for your different positions argument, donít bother. Harrison has played wider, and defensively mopped up through the middle. Watmough is mainly deployed wider because he's a liability.
Watmough plays wider because he's a 2nd rower, as for Stewart he plays either 2nd row or lock. Watmough has played 206 games for Manly scoring 63 tries. Thats a huge number for a forward. He has a lot of metres and a lot of hitups, hence the high number of mistakes and both Watmough and Stewart are 80 minutes players. Sure some games they may only play 60-70 mins. More time on the field = higher number of missed tackles when you look at it as a total number. Myles doesn't have nearly the same amount of game time, and Harrison while being a good defender is a total numpty with the ball in hand.
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Old 02-26-2012, 04:51 AM   #109 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official Rugby League & Rugby Union Thread

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Originally Posted by Rush View Post
Watmough plays wider because he's a 2nd rower, as for Stewart he plays either 2nd row or lock. Watmough has played 206 games for Manly scoring 63 tries. Thats a huge number for a forward. He has a lot of metres and a lot of hitups, hence the high number of mistakes and both Watmough and Stewart are 80 minutes players. Sure some games they may only play 60-70 mins. More time on the field = higher number of missed tackles when you look at it as a total number. Myles doesn't have nearly the same amount of game time, and Harrison while being a good defender is a total numpty with the ball in hand.
The subject was defence. Youíre jumping around a bit. You fail to realise that Harrison made more tackles than both Stewart and Watmough. If he played less minutes, which Iím sure he didnít, it actually further hinders your argument (making more tackles with less minutes). In SOO defence is the key. Harrison is far superior to both Stewart and Watmough in this department.
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Old 02-26-2012, 05:34 AM   #110 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official Rugby League & Rugby Union Thread

When i said Myles and Harrison are garbage it took everything into consideration. You're focusing one part of the game to try and twist the argument in favour of your queenslanders. Watmough is an aggressive attacking player hence the mistakes and penalties. Stewart is a far more complete player than either of them, he's a solid defender (the stats you posted even back that up) and he is a far better attacking player than Myles and Harrison put together.

You also have stats from one year (2010) when Watmough was playing poorly. 2009 was an amazing year for him, and 2011 was a good rebound year. 2010 he got done for a number of off field things, his game was a mess.
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