I think the players have potential, they just need to play the 'right' way. The Mike Bassett shit we continue to play is making us the dullest team around - out of all the 'big' nations, I'm pretty sure we'd be the shittest to watch. I wonder if we could tempt Mr. Heynckes...
how many of them actually know how the play the 'right way' though?
many of the top teams in england are now geared towards a more continental feel. that much is certain. but how many of them actually have english players as the driving force in these teams? how many english players are actually excelling at this style of play? it's all about the mata's the hazard's, the silva's, the coutinho's right about now. maybe carrick, but you would hardly call it flashy or anything. but guys like shrek, lampard, gerrard, are no long the focal points, if you will, of their respective clubs.
the top english players aren't actually, in the scheme of things, top players.
It's a bit of a pointless conversation because I honestly don't think we'll qualify. If we do it'll because of the luck of the play off draw and even then I wouldn't expect us to get past the Group Stage proper. I wouldn't expect many players to break through between now and then anyway. Maybe a squad player breaks in to make the numbers up but nobody who's making a big impact. It'll be the same old team that looks more and more average as players drop out and get replaced by Cahill's and Chamberlain's. Lowton should definitely get in ahead of Walker if he keeps his form up from this year. Our problem is that we don't have any special players right now. Rooney's lost that edge, Walcott isn't reliable, Lampard and Gerrard are on their last legs, Ox isn't ready and our defence looks so average at a high level. 2018 WC might be more promising with players like Jones, Shaw, etc coming through who show real promise
England better fucking qualify or Gerrard will be sticking around for the Euro 2016 qualifying campaign. I've a feeling he wants to break Becks' outfield England cap record. He'd probably be very close to it right now if he wasn't out for so long a couple of seasons ago, and he's missing these two friendlies with an injury now too.
Kiz's point is on the money. Money shot so to speak. Yes I was lurking in the chatbox earlier. You can point to the grass roots system and all sorts of areas to blame but at the end of the day, if the natural god given talent is there to even develop then it's tough to go as far as optimists expect us to. There's some players who'd be better developed from being central to a team but to use Cahill as an example again, there's only so far you can develop him to. You can encourage the top clubs to build teams around English players but they don't have to and if a Silva or a Mata is better then why would they.
Players like Mata and Silva still need to come from somewhere though. There's a huge difference between being good enough for Valencia at the start of your career and not being good enough for Aston Villa (Cahill) at a similar stage. It took Cahill until he was 22 to get a regular game in the premier league, that says more about his standards (and the standards of English players in general) in comparison to his foreign counterparts at a similar ages.
Good young players will receive chances at top English clubs (look at Redead's list) if they're available, but there really isn't anyone good enough to develop at the moment. So yes, the grass roots system is largely to blame because it isn't producing enough players that canrealistically be developed by mid-lower half prem teams before they go onto better things. We need to be producing young players that have the technical skills and potential of players like Mata and Silva at an early age, but the best we can do is offer up the likes of Ashley Young, Walcott and AOC who are essentially one trick ponies and pace merchants.
That is a direct result of how young players are taught to play football from an early age in this country. Technique/intelligence > Pace/athleticism, but that doesn't matter to most of the youth coaches in this country who are more concerned about winning games than developing future players. At youth level pace and strength can be far more effective because coaches will choose big/fast lads and let them chase the ball that's hoofed to them while forgetting about skill. That doesn't work at the top senior professional level because most of the players are strong/quick to a point, hence the lack of good/great English players. They have the physical side mastered but not the technical side.
I don't blame the clubs at all in terms of youth development because the chances are that they probably receive half a dozen or so decentish youth players every year whereas clubs in Spain have to reject many good young players who later go on to become top players. The odds of that limited pool of players producing a top talent is far smaller in comparison to one where there is far more competition and overall quality. The culture of English grass roots football needs to change otherwise the state of English youth development will never change.
As for average English internationals being carried by superior club mates in league contests, that's hardly a revolutionary thought seeing as that is an argument that has been made since the early 2000's, it just so happens that the divide is becoming far more obvious now.
Terry, Lampard, Cole, Rooney, Gerrard, Beckham, Ferdinand, and co were all at the top of their game and absolutely essential parts of their respective teams, far more than today
Problem was that England had only one striker capable of winning them a tournament in 2006, and unfortunately for them, that striker was injured, got sent off and is one that has been reduced to the level of a pub player in every international tournament in which he has played bar Euro 2004 where he was sensational.
And that midfield wasn't good enough to win a tournament without a striker :andres
I played in a team a few years back when my sole command from the manager was to wipe out their best player, regardless of where he played. I wasn't too arsed as I was just doing what I was told, but looking back now it's obvious that this mentality is not a unique case. I'd much rather have a goal or assist league record than one for yellow AND red cards. I've cleaned my game up now, mainly because I wanted to play properly - the other reason being the fines got progressively worse.
Tbh we need leagues banned for the younger age groups. Full-time coaches don't care about winning. Weekend coaches (not all) couldn't give a shit about anything else.
This was done for the U9s and U10s in my local league last season (I'm a mini soccer ref) and there was absolute uproar from the parents, the kids didn't seem fussed, they just wanted to play.
Yeah it is but it's not all age groups. It needs to be up to Under-13's too IMO. We need to keep competitive 11-a-side back for as long as possible and focus on Mini Soccer.
We also need some decent pitches for these young lads to play on, a lot of the pitches I go on are just beyond a joke although I do live in Mid-Lincolnshire and we still think it's fucking 1958 so might not be as widespread
Rio Ferdinand has been channeling me with his recent tweets about England. This in particular was a stand-out: ‘In most Premier League teams retaining the ball is done best by foreign players in the team. They are taught to pass to a man with a man on. #dealwithit.’
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