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Old 11-28-2012, 09:24 AM   #101 (permalink)
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Default Re: 11/30 Smackdown, Main Event & SMS Spoilers

My opinion is this. Sandow isn't that great in the eyes of the WWE I believe. He has lost to Sheamus countless times, lost to KOFI and then Cena (which is acceptable). But why should he be booked to lose to Sheamus that many times? If WWE truly sees him as an up and coming star, they will protect him against the bigger names. He should be booked as a threat to them, not just another guy. If anything he needs to be in a good midcard fued right now and maybe be a midcard champion like the Intercontinental. He has the talent, more talent than the other guys that got "mega pushes". Why is he not in that situation? Because Vince likes BIG guys. Sandow is simply more talented.

My opinion on Barrett is also around the same. Barrett had that fued with Orton which should have propelled him to the Main Event. He should have won that fued by the way. But he is stuck in the mid-card which is a HUGE dissapointment. If you aren't getting a mega push towards a World Title nowadays (Ryback,Sheamus, Del Rio) it seems as if you won't really get a decent push unless you BEG like Punk. I don't understand why the writers just make their up and comers seem decent and protect them against the bigger names, hell, don't even have them face off because when the big name beats them, it ruins the appeal of when they face off again, and you think the up and comer has no chance cause he got beat by that guy multiple times in the past.
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Old 11-28-2012, 10:15 AM   #102 (permalink)
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Default Re: 11/30 Smackdown, Main Event & SMS Spoilers

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Originally Posted by Tyrion Lannister View Post
I'm getting ridiculous, really? Wade Barrett has FIVE THOUSAND wins over Randy Orton and where is he? Orton is NOTHING. WWE's biggest failure of all time is trying to put Randy Orton in John Cena's spot for 8 or 9 years before they finally gave up because they realized he has the charisma of a bean.
And why is that? Because they wrestle each other 1000 times a month, that's why! It will become meaningless when they trade wins every other week. It's not because Orton is "nothing", it's because of bad booking. A win over Cena would also become meaningless if he traded wins and losses with a heel on a weekly basis the way Orton's done in the past year.

I'm not even gonna argue with you since you always spout the most hyperbole non-sense all the time and stand by it. Random face wins a match... "HE'S NOW A BIGGER STAR THAN ORTON EVER WAS!!!!".
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Old 11-28-2012, 11:24 AM   #103 (permalink)
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Default Re: 11/30 Smackdown, Main Event & SMS Spoilers

Well this thread has been more entertaining than Smackdown will be this week.

I think the only thing I'll be checking out is Sandow's IQ test segment. Sounds fun.
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Old 11-28-2012, 11:30 AM   #104 (permalink)
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Default Re: 11/30 Smackdown, Main Event & SMS Spoilers

nothing to waych for then, why is Great Khali and Hornswoggle employed by the E
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Old 11-28-2012, 12:12 PM   #105 (permalink)
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Default Re: 11/30 Smackdown, Main Event & SMS Spoilers

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Originally Posted by Choke2Death View Post
And why is that? Because they wrestle each other 1000 times a month, that's why! It will become meaningless when they trade wins every other week. It's not because Orton is "nothing", it's because of bad booking. A win over Cena would also become meaningless if he traded wins and losses with a heel on a weekly basis the way Orton's done in the past year.
If Barrett was the only guy who managed to beat Cena while trading wins with him, it would indeed mean something, much like the case with Orton. If Cena lost to every mid-card heel in WWE, only the first couple would matter and the rest would mean little to nothing.

That being said, Orton isn't nothing, but he's at the bottom of the totem pole when it comes to top guys/current stars that mean something in WWE. The list isn't very long of course (Cena, Punk, Ryback, Sheamus, and then Orton is all I'd put right now... and I guess Show since he's WHC), but Randy's star has fallen far from where it was even just a year ago, which of course, as you pointed out, is due to bad booking. Orton's lost to pretty much every heel WWE has right now, and has lost several times since his return in August. He's lost to Ziggler 2-3 times, Barrett twice, Show twice, and has tapped to Del Rio a couple of times in matches. WWE doesn't book Orton like they do the likes of Cena, Sheamus, and Ryback as top faces and Orton isn't The Rock, who can take several losses but due to his overwhelming charisma it still makes the fans care when he loses to someone. Honestly, when Punk and Orton had their match on Raw a couple months ago, I was genuinely shocked they didn't just have Punk go over Orton since every other heel has seemed to.

On the other hand, it's part of the appeal of Orton imo that he's not booked like other faces, and personally I wouldn't have it any other way character wise goes. But even though a lot of people, including myself, complain about how few losses Cena and Sheamus take (we'll pardon Ryback for now since he's relatively new), Orton does it way too much to compensate for their lack of losses. If say, Orton lost to Sandow and Barrett once or twice, Sheamus lost to Ziggler and Del Rio once or twice, and Cena lost to Show once or twice in feuds, it would mean more when Orton loses (while still keeping the meaning when Cena/Sheamus lose) instead of dumping all the losses on Orton.

Punk was actually booked very similarly to Orton when he was a face. He'd lose to Ziggler, Kane, Bryan, Jericho, Tensai, etc. multiple times. Though Punk was cushioned by the fact he was champion and won the matches when they counted.

But yeah, Orton's booking as a top face has been terrible.

Speaking of booking, Sandow's been in a bit of a ditch lately. He was eliminated with relative ease at SVS, lost to Sheamus on Raw last week, and lost to Kofi Kingston on SD last week. And the thing is every time it was a standard taunt/set-up into hitting the finisher without any fight from Sandow to avoid it, which makes him look weak. Especially with Kofi considering he almost never hits trouble in paradise after his "BOOM BOOM" taunt, so that's been my main problem with Sandow's recent losses, and will be my problem if the same thing happens on The Main Event. Otherwise the losses themselves don't bother me. He was bound to get eliminated at SVS one way or the other, everyone except Punk and Big Show so far always losses to Sheamus, losing to Kofi in an IC Title match is fine as it's great Kofi is successfully defending the IC Title (albeit, Sandow should be where Barrett is now and Barrett should be in the main event, but that's a whole other problem I have in itself). And losing to Cena is fine. It's all in the execution though.

And on the topic of Barrett, I like how they've had him on commentary, speaking, which is what he does best, as well as letting him cut a great quick promo on SD last week and the little development on Raw with Barrett handing the title to Kofi (though it would've been better if Barrett assaulted Kofi and ref's had to pull him off him, but WWE seems to not like to use that booking with mid-card feuds).

For Smackdown, haven't watched it in a few weeks, but I'll definitely catch the Sandow IQ Test online. It sounds hilarious.
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Old 11-28-2012, 12:28 PM   #106 (permalink)
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Default Re: 11/30 Smackdown, Main Event & SMS Spoilers

LOL Ziggler has shit cred to consider him a ME player atm. He's gone over Orton many times, but something isn't clicking and I ain't feeling it. Maybe when he wins the title. He was extremely fierce on Raw, but it was short lived. The vibe he had on that ep was the most intense I have seen him as far as I remember. Also Cesaro needs Swagger to feud with, NOW.

I think the MITB should develop a curse gimmick to put an end to the concept once and for all.
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Old 11-28-2012, 12:38 PM   #107 (permalink)
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Default Re: 11/30 Smackdown, Main Event & SMS Spoilers

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Punk was actually booked very similarly to Orton when he was a face. He'd lose to Ziggler, Kane, Bryan, Jericho, Tensai, etc. multiple times. Though Punk was cushioned by the fact he was champion and won the matches when they counted.
Not even close. The only times Punk actually lost were in tag matches or by DQ/distraction/count out. Orton takes clean pinfalls all the damn time. And as you mentioned, Punk would go into superman mode in PPV matches and beat his opponents with ease. Nowhere near comparable.

Hopefully the booking with Orton improves next year and they start pushing him again. Their booking of him this year is one of many reasons why 2012 is the worst year in WWE history.
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Old 11-28-2012, 12:49 PM   #108 (permalink)
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Default Re: 11/30 Smackdown, Main Event & SMS Spoilers

I think if Orton never got injured or suspended, along with all those other stars getting injured, things would be a bit different right about now. He'll probably redeem that missed time very soon, maybe about MANIA time.
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Old 11-28-2012, 12:52 PM   #109 (permalink)
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Default Re: 11/30 Smackdown, Main Event & SMS Spoilers

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Originally Posted by Choke2Death View Post
Not even close. The only times Punk actually lost were in tag matches or by DQ/distraction/count out. Orton takes clean pinfalls all the damn time. And as you mentioned, Punk would go into superman mode in PPV matches and beat his opponents with ease. Nowhere near comparable.
Punk lost to Bryan relatively clean from what I remember in a one on one match on Raw (might have used an exposed turnbuckle, but can't remember). I think the match with Kane the following/prior week was clean as well, though Bryan may have interfered in that one. That being said, Orton does lose clean to heels more, but the amount of losses to pretty much any heel is where the similarity is and that was my point and it made a win over Punk not mean as much as it should've aside from if, of course, it was a title match.

And if Orton was in Punk's spot as champion, he would've been in "superman mode" at PPVs as well. Hell, he was for his entire feud with Christian last year and against Punk himself at Mania/ER. At least going by what we're considering "superman mode".
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Old 11-28-2012, 01:04 PM   #110 (permalink)
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Default Re: 11/30 Smackdown, Main Event & SMS Spoilers

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Punk lost to Bryan relatively clean from what I remember in a one on one match on Raw (might have used an exposed turnbuckle, but can't remember). I think the match with Kane the following/prior week was clean as well, though Bryan may have interfered in that one. That being said, Orton does lose clean to heels more, but the amount of losses to pretty much any heel is where the similarity is and that was my point and it made a win over Punk not mean as much as it should've aside from if, of course, it was a title match.

And if Orton was in Punk's spot as champion, he would've been in "superman mode" at PPVs as well. Hell, he was for his entire feud with Christian last year and against Punk himself at Mania/ER. At least going by what we're considering "superman mode".
When did Punk lose to Bryan? I only remember a DQ finish and another match where both guys were pinning each other. I think they had a match right before Over the Limit that was placed in the 10 PM time and I remember that it lost viewers and caused an uproar in the ratings thread (). Don't know the finish, though. Might have been that match. And Orton loses A LOT more.

Lastly, Orton was in "superman mode" at times, specially when taking down the entire Nexus which is why he started getting hated on in forums. Don't know how you consider either of the Punk matches "superman mode", though. He was not attacked by a bunch of Nexus members and still overcame or anything like that and he was not put through a bunch of finishers that he kicked out of. It was just a regular match and a LMS one where he won after an even and fair fight. I can see the "superman" in some of the Christian matches, though. He kept kicking out of strong moves a lot, specially in the steel cage match.
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