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Old 07-24-2013, 02:58 AM   #51 (permalink)
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Default Re: WWE Title is a Shambles

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Originally Posted by DonkMunk316 View Post
The storyline surrounding the title,SuperCena rushing out to save Bryan,
IS A SHAMBLES
If that's what you think this storyline is, just give up.
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Old 07-24-2013, 03:01 AM   #52 (permalink)
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Default Re: WWE Title is a Shambles

it does almost feel like there is no wwe title now that it's on cena. why even have him carry the belt? it's on his fucking t-shirt. putting the strap on the guy who's treated above the championship makes it null and void.
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Old 07-24-2013, 03:10 AM   #53 (permalink)
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Default Re: WWE Title is a Shambles

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Originally Posted by Brye View Post
They've been building themselves a good storyline here. Bryan is absolutely on fire and putting 1000% passion into his matches and is doing it all for the title.

I don't think it's in shambles at all. Punk's reign was awesome despite it being overshadowed by part timers. He managed to still make the title look great while it was playing second fiddle most of the time.

Also, don't give a fuck about 99% of the AE and it means literally nothing to me that people watched it and enjoyed it. Doesn't mean the title is in shambles now. I still care about it. But the AE did have some good main event feuds in Trips/Foley, Austin/Angle and Austin/Rock.

You HAVE to start giving the title to new people. Especially while someone like Cena and a few part timers are active. The stars of the past need to do their job and get other guys over so that the business can continue. I understand the whole "this guy is too good lol" and "that match wouldn't get PPV BUYS~!" but what else can you do? Keep using part timers until they're gone and then literally do nothing when you could be building plenty of perfectly good superstars that you already have. Losing out on money now to make money in the long run because there won't be any money in the long run if they don't make new stars. Wrestler's careers are getting shorter. You're not going to see a 53 yr old Cena wrestling.
That's kind of...rude...

There are parts of what the OP says that I agree with, and other parts that I don't.

To start, yeah, the WWE title doesn't mean very much these days (in comparison to other years), it seems. That's because of a combination of things. First of all, the major attractions that make things seem really special don't center around the title. Back in the day, when certain guys were involved in something, it was automatically a big deal. Today, those guys are part timers who seldom wrestle and when they do, it doesn't involve the title. As a result, some of the focus gets taken away from that. Second, there are really no big time matches or rivalries left that the WWE hasn't done to death. Third, matches in general don't seem to mean much these days. Like, Ryback vs Chris Jericho...really, who cares who won? It was just...there. 99% of what they do today feels so clumsily thrown together just to give guys something to do. When you watch it, you feel "wait, why do I care again?"

The other problem is that, unlike in 1999, there are really no characters in the WWE anymore. The OP seems to have that theatrical affection for pro wrestling that many of us do. Whenever you hear of a media interpretation of what wrestling is like, its always something like fantastical like "Crusher Collins vs The Exterminator" or something. Guys who, just by saying their name, sound larger than life and generally interesting. "Stone Cold vs The Rock." "Triple H vs Cactus Jack." "The Undertaker vs Kane." Just say those out loud, slowly. They sound intriguing. An Undertaker wrestling? That sounds kind of important.

Then compare that to today. Daniel Bryan vs John Cena. Damien Sandow vs Cody Rhodes. CM Punk vs Brock Lesnar. Aside from Punk, the rest of the names sound like completely ordinary, unexciting people. What real hook is there to want to watch them? If you're a wrestling fan and already know of them, there might be one. However, to a regular person who knows nothing about the industry, they'd probably not care. It sounds kind of boring.

The era of characters has, unfortunately, largely left us. Now, either we get crappy characters or none at all. To go from a time so rich with vibrant, memorable characters to an era where there are virtually none is shocking, in a way. This really is the reality era, it seems. Not like reality TV, but regular guys wrestling. The Daniel Bryans and the John Cenas. John Cena is a real guy who happens to be a wrestler. The Undertaker is a character portrayed by Mark Calaway.

There's also the fact that pro wrestling in general is in a dark time. Sure, financially, the industry is doing fine, but in terms of actual mainstream popularity and mass appeal...cold as a tombstone in the snow. There were periods of time when the world was all over pro wrestling. It was trendy and considered cool to be a fan of. 2013 is not one of those time periods. People in general don't seem to give a crap about pro wrestling, aside from those who specifically choose to follow it.

So in all, I think its a combination of matches meaning basically nothing, lack of memorable characters and character development, this reality era and the fact that the industry as a whole is in a big slump that contributes towards the title, and the company, feeling somewhat empty and meaningless.

Now they're making headway in improving that. Guys like Bray Wyatt are just the sort of memorable characters we need. And Punk is doing great stuff, as well. However, a boom period can really only happen when the right guys and right situation come at the right time. You can't force that, it just happens. As for improving the prestige of the title and point of matches...that's going to take some time. Yeah, its nice to see Daniel Bryan wrestle for 40 minutes, but if he starts doing that every week on Raw, by week 3 the novelty will have worn off and people will get tired of it. I think the first thing they need to do is cut the damn show (Raw) back to 2 hours. Then, stop with the lengthy matches and start working on developing feuds and characters. The TV shows should convince people to buy the PPVs. Sell your feuds and angles there, and get the lengthy matches on the PPVs. All 3 hours of a wrestling driven product does is eliminate time to develop characters and needlessly waste fresh match ups. If you see Wade Barrett vs Sheamus once on TV, what reason would you ever have to order a PPV to see it a month later? Now in this case, Barrett vs Sheamus has been done about 8000 times. What about Punk vs RVD? Same scenario. Use television shows to hype matches, not eliminate future match ups with some novelty for no reason other than to fill up time on a show that's way too long.
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Old 07-24-2013, 03:14 AM   #54 (permalink)
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Default Re: WWE Title is a Shambles

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Originally Posted by GoToSl33p View Post
This, exactly. Punk brought prestige back to the title and made it meaningful again. I remember JR tweeting it just after Royal Rumble and it it pretty spot on.
Actually, he didn't.

A long reign =/= a good reign. What was the most memorable thing about Punk's entire tenure as champion? The length, that's it. Oh, and losing it to Rock. The rest of the time it was forgettable stuff.

The moments are what really count when you're a champion. Mick Foley was WWE champion 3 times, for a total of 29 days, and those 29 days are infinitely more memorable than Punk's 434 because of what happened during them. Rock and Mankind fought a damn war for that belt, which made you feel how important it was. Punk ran away...
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Old 07-24-2013, 03:40 AM   #55 (permalink)
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Default Re: WWE Title is a Shambles

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoToSl33p View Post
This, exactly. Punk brought prestige back to the title and made it meaningful again. I remember JR tweeting it just after Royal Rumble and it it pretty spot on.
Yeah Punk did make it meaningful again but Cena is just making it look like an accessory he brings down to the ring.
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Old 07-24-2013, 03:49 AM   #56 (permalink)
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Default Re: WWE Title is a Shambles

Quote:
Originally Posted by KO Bossy View Post
That's kind of...rude...

There are parts of what the OP says that I agree with, and other parts that I don't.

To start, yeah, the WWE title doesn't mean very much these days (in comparison to other years), it seems. That's because of a combination of things. First of all, the major attractions that make things seem really special don't center around the title. Back in the day, when certain guys were involved in something, it was automatically a big deal. Today, those guys are part timers who seldom wrestle and when they do, it doesn't involve the title. As a result, some of the focus gets taken away from that. Second, there are really no big time matches or rivalries left that the WWE hasn't done to death. Third, matches in general don't seem to mean much these days. Like, Ryback vs Chris Jericho...really, who cares who won? It was just...there. 99% of what they do today feels so clumsily thrown together just to give guys something to do. When you watch it, you feel "wait, why do I care again?"

The other problem is that, unlike in 1999, there are really no characters in the WWE anymore. The OP seems to have that theatrical affection for pro wrestling that many of us do. Whenever you hear of a media interpretation of what wrestling is like, its always something like fantastical like "Crusher Collins vs The Exterminator" or something. Guys who, just by saying their name, sound larger than life and generally interesting. "Stone Cold vs The Rock." "Triple H vs Cactus Jack." "The Undertaker vs Kane." Just say those out loud, slowly. They sound intriguing. An Undertaker wrestling? That sounds kind of important.

Then compare that to today. Daniel Bryan vs John Cena. Damien Sandow vs Cody Rhodes. CM Punk vs Brock Lesnar. Aside from Punk, the rest of the names sound like completely ordinary, unexciting people. What real hook is there to want to watch them? If you're a wrestling fan and already know of them, there might be one. However, to a regular person who knows nothing about the industry, they'd probably not care. It sounds kind of boring.

The era of characters has, unfortunately, largely left us. Now, either we get crappy characters or none at all. To go from a time so rich with vibrant, memorable characters to an era where there are virtually none is shocking, in a way. This really is the reality era, it seems. Not like reality TV, but regular guys wrestling. The Daniel Bryans and the John Cenas. John Cena is a real guy who happens to be a wrestler. The Undertaker is a character portrayed by Mark Calaway.

There's also the fact that pro wrestling in general is in a dark time. Sure, financially, the industry is doing fine, but in terms of actual mainstream popularity and mass appeal...cold as a tombstone in the snow. There were periods of time when the world was all over pro wrestling. It was trendy and considered cool to be a fan of. 2013 is not one of those time periods. People in general don't seem to give a crap about pro wrestling, aside from those who specifically choose to follow it.

So in all, I think its a combination of matches meaning basically nothing, lack of memorable characters and character development, this reality era and the fact that the industry as a whole is in a big slump that contributes towards the title, and the company, feeling somewhat empty and meaningless.

Now they're making headway in improving that. Guys like Bray Wyatt are just the sort of memorable characters we need. And Punk is doing great stuff, as well. However, a boom period can really only happen when the right guys and right situation come at the right time. You can't force that, it just happens. As for improving the prestige of the title and point of matches...that's going to take some time. Yeah, its nice to see Daniel Bryan wrestle for 40 minutes, but if he starts doing that every week on Raw, by week 3 the novelty will have worn off and people will get tired of it. I think the first thing they need to do is cut the damn show (Raw) back to 2 hours. Then, stop with the lengthy matches and start working on developing feuds and characters. The TV shows should convince people to buy the PPVs. Sell your feuds and angles there, and get the lengthy matches on the PPVs. All 3 hours of a wrestling driven product does is eliminate time to develop characters and needlessly waste fresh match ups. If you see Wade Barrett vs Sheamus once on TV, what reason would you ever have to order a PPV to see it a month later? Now in this case, Barrett vs Sheamus has been done about 8000 times. What about Punk vs RVD? Same scenario. Use television shows to hype matches, not eliminate future match ups with some novelty for no reason other than to fill up time on a show that's way too long.
Fair enough, was a tad rude. Was mainly directed at the "you should be worshiping The Rock" people though. I mean I'm glad other people enjoyed it, I even did as well, as a youngin' but I said that so that I could save someone the trouble of saying "Raw drew ___ in 1999 and therefore it's amazing" and such. I just don't think someone has to be liked by the masses to be good, and vice versa.

Now you're right about quite a few things. Raw should only be two hours. I'm a big fan of TV matches being good, but I can agree that things get overdone. I think WWE actually should utilize less singles matches on Raw and use longer six man/four man tag matches.It really does feel like too much programming sometimes. I still think the people deserve a lengthy match or two though. I mean, at least that's what keeps me from just youtubing segments the next day.

It's true. The character times have left us but there's still some. I still consider a guy like Sandow to be a character. Even though he doesn't have a different type of name like Undertaker or Diesel, etc, he still certainly plays a character. Same with Fandango. And then there's guys with hints of character, like Del Rio. Unfortunately, most gimmicky characters are used as jobbers currently.

I think the biggest problem is still the booking of the midcard. There's not any kind of feuds like there was in say '04 or so. It's just series of matches, winner goes on to another series of matches with a new guy, etc. That's what needs to change. Because if you give these guys something to fight over and let them talk about it, I can see guys like Barrett or Axel getting a little more over if they actually had a reason for their matches.

But looking at the WWE title, I still think it's prestigious enough. It's obviously not 80's or 90's prestigious, but it still means quite a bit.
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Old 07-24-2013, 04:17 AM   #57 (permalink)
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Default Re: WWE Title is a Shambles

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Originally Posted by KO Bossy View Post
Actually, he didn't.

A long reign =/= a good reign. What was the most memorable thing about Punk's entire tenure as champion? The length, that's it. Oh, and losing it to Rock. The rest of the time it was forgettable stuff.

The moments are what really count when you're a champion. Mick Foley was WWE champion 3 times, for a total of 29 days, and those 29 days are infinitely more memorable than Punk's 434 because of what happened during them. Rock and Mankind fought a damn war for that belt, which made you feel how important it was. Punk ran away...
Nope, Raw 1000, major heel turn, finally elevated the title back to the Mainevent scene from there on. Losing to The Rock after 434 days was like to some people "finally" his lost the title and just made the moment so much more meaningful as comapared to someone who held it for 30 days. It made the title have prestige again, was the be all and end all of the show for months and was treated as it should. The Rock used it as a prop and Cena doesn't even give a fuck about it he wears it on his T-Shirt instead and calls it "a piece of leather and some gold".
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Old 07-24-2013, 04:49 AM   #58 (permalink)
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Default Re: WWE Title is a Shambles

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Originally Posted by GoToSl33p View Post
Nope, Raw 1000, major heel turn, finally elevated the title back to the Mainevent scene from there on. Losing to The Rock after 434 days was like to some people "finally" his lost the title and just made the moment so much more meaningful as comapared to someone who held it for 30 days. It made the title have prestige again, was the be all and end all of the show for months and was treated as it should. The Rock used it as a prop and Cena doesn't even give a fuck about it he wears it on his T-Shirt instead and calls it "a piece of leather and some gold".
Loosing the title to The Rock was one of the most stupid fucking decisions ever made. The Rock utterly SHIT on the WWE between Royal Rumble and Wrestlemania. Its an utter disgrace how Vince allowed him to walk into the company, snap his fingers and get the title, and walk straight back out. I would be very happy if The Rock didn't ever come back to the WWE, he tarnished his own name in the past 2 years. Cena is just as bad, him getting the title isn't a big thing anymore, its usually just something we expect.
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Old 07-24-2013, 05:03 AM   #59 (permalink)
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Default Re: WWE Title is a Shambles

CM Punk only held the title so long due to lack of competition and lack of match stipulation

No holds barred vs Austin HHH Foley Undertaker

His reign would have ended much, much sooner
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Old 07-24-2013, 06:29 AM   #60 (permalink)
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Default Re: WWE Title is a Shambles

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Originally Posted by DonkMunk316 View Post
Is this realy wots its been reduced too???

The passion that has been shown down the years for that belt

The blood sweat and tears and everythin elese given by many a past legend

The countless brutal intense passionate matches, the fericest of rivalries

Hulk Hogan, Bret Hart, Shawn Micheals, The Rock, HHH, The Undertaker, Mick Foley, Brock Lesnar, Kurt Angle etc etc ...

STONE COLD STEVE AUSTIN

To Super Cena pickin Daniel Bryan .

It is not the same championship as held by all the previous greats

It means absolutely nothin now

Wheres the rivalry, the passion, the agression, the brutality?

The WWE Title is DEAD
What?
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