Are you against the big guy philosophy? - Page 5 - Wrestling Forum : WWE, TNA, Debate League, Wrestling Videos, Women of Wrestling Forums
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Old 05-01-2013, 03:06 PM   #41 (permalink)
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Default Re: Are you against the big guy philosophy?

whose fault is that? the shallow public or the promoters inability to use this defact monopoly responsibly?
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Old 05-01-2013, 03:56 PM   #42 (permalink)
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Default Re: Are you against the big guy philosophy?

small guys are there to bounce around the ring and sell the big guys power moves and make them look good

so small guys have a place in wrestling, its just not at the top level, with a few exceptions
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Old 05-01-2013, 04:10 PM   #43 (permalink)
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Default Re: Are you against the big guy philosophy?

You need a mix of shapes and sizes to get the right balance for your show. You need Mark Henry's and Big Show's because they are legitimate freaks of nature and when people see them for the first time, it's genuinely something to behold. When you see a Brock Lesnar and then you see him jumping around and flying off the top rope it makes you stop what you're doing and watch. At the same time, you also need the Rey Mysterio's and Evan Bourne's. You need the small guys because they can take all that jumping around a step further and almost defy gravity. You need to have both so that the Henry's of the world can look so much bigger when standing next to the Mysterio's and so that the Mysterio's can look like real underdogs when pitted against them. If WWE only had big men it would suck. If WWE only had smaller guys it would suck. The variation of styles and sizes is what makes it fun.

The problem all comes down to the presentation of said guys and their portrayal in certain scenarios, especially heels. You can't take a guy like Miz or Punk and make them physical threats who destroy everybody in their path because it just isn't believable and it doesn't work. It's just like in a movie. You don't pick a smaller guy to be this physically domineering evil character when you have a 6'5 250lbs guy to choose instead of him. You play to their strengths which is something WWE doesn't or can't do. They have one type of heel these days no matter their size; the cowardly whiner, and that's what we're stuck with. Combine that with the fact that they book their heels as underdogs and into situations where people would naturally root for that person and is it any wonder that they're all getting cheered.

I personally enjoy a mix of small guys and bigger ones. I think it would be boring if they were all the same. But some people get caught up in the simple fact that not everybody can be a face of the company or company standard bearer and so they whine and bitch and complain when their guy, most likely a smaller guy, isn't put into that position when they think they should be. That's the part that also causes a lot of trouble. People aren't thinking of what WWE as a company want to represent them and fair enough, why should they? But if you're going to debate this topic you sort of have to put yourself in their shoes. They want to appeal to the widest audience possible, they want that one guy who can hit the most demographics at once, they want somebody they can send out to represent them at whatever function and not have people turn their noses up at him. That's why the Hogan's, Rock's, Cena's and generally larger guys get put into the spots they do. Take away from the fact that they're entertaining and charismatic etc. They're simply what you want to represent your company over somebody standing at 5'11 covered in tattoos who looks like he's never been in a gym before. They want somebody who when you see him, you immediately think wrestler instead of scratching your head wondering who the hell this guy is. That's the part that causes all this friction between so called indy marks and meathead marks or whatever the fuck they're called. A lot of folks aren't getting or aren't able to understand the bigger picture. Some of the greatest talents on the roster can never be what John Cena is because they don't look like John Cena. It may be harsh but it's reality.
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Old 05-01-2013, 04:23 PM   #44 (permalink)
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Default Re: Are you against the big guy philosophy?

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Originally Posted by Hannibal Lector View Post
I wouldn't count someone like The Rock as a big guy. He could certainly move in his day. Nowadays yes he is huge, but in his prime he wasn't.

The problem is with the big guy philosophy, is that you need a smaller guy to make the match work. 2 big men going against each other often equates to a terrible match. Just watch the ECW fatal 4 way with just a bunch of 300lb men in the ring. Think it was Kane, Viscera, Henry and Big Show or something. Just an awful awful spectacle to watch, as funny as it was.

HBK vs Taker was a perfect balance. HHH vs Taker was still good but you could tell the similarities of being large hindered the match.

When you look at the big guys, the only one that really stands out with their own legacy is The Undertaker. Everyone else is a more average wrestling build, like Rock, Austin, Hart, Jericho, HBK e.t.c.

To conclude I would say Vince does put too much emphasis on 'the look', at times. Wrestlers like Bryan would have been over ages ago if they had the WWE look. Sometimes unconventional is the way forward, and Vince needs to realise this.
I believe this is largely true in a general sense as well. Unlike ring work, look, character, or charisma, size seems to be mostly relative, its appeal stemming largely from how you compare to everyone else and being purely secondary whenever facing someone who's your physical equal. I don't truly believe many people would care about a guy purely because he's big.

Probably the biggest problem I have with the WWE philosophy on big guys is that it's almost entirely aesthetic based leading to a situation where wastes of space like Swagger get undeserved pushes over more talented smaller guys while talented big guys like Big Show, Lesnar, and Ryback don't get booked dominantly enough over smaller/weaker main eventers.

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Old 05-01-2013, 04:50 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Default Re: Are you against the big guy philosophy?

I only like "big guys" if they can move like Taker or Kane or are complete badass and scary like Mark Henry or Brock Lesnar.
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Old 05-01-2013, 05:12 PM   #46 (permalink)
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Default Re: Are you against the big guy philosophy?

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Originally Posted by Bossdude View Post
small guys are there to bounce around the ring and sell the big guys power moves and make them look good

so small guys have a place in wrestling, its just not at the top level, with a few exceptions

I don't even know where to start with this.
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Old 05-01-2013, 05:23 PM   #47 (permalink)
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Default Re: Are you against the big guy philosophy?

I'm definitely not against it, as others have said you need a mix of both, but wrestlers who are talented shouldn't be turned down for a main event spot just because they aren't big enough.
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Old 05-01-2013, 05:36 PM   #48 (permalink)
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Default Re: Are you against the big guy philosophy?

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Originally Posted by Starbuck View Post
They want somebody who when you see him, you immediately think wrestler instead of scratching your head wondering who the hell this guy is. That's the part that causes all this friction between so called indy marks and meathead marks or whatever the fuck they're called. A lot of folks aren't getting or aren't able to understand the bigger picture. Some of the greatest talents on the roster can never be what John Cena is because they don't look like John Cena. It may be harsh but it's reality.

Yeah like if the face of the company was some bald, beer drinking redneck, most people would be scratching their head wondering who the hell this guy is. Oh wait.. What does a wrestler look like in this day and age? Even casual fans and kids really like smaller guys, just look at Rey Mysterio and Jeff Hardy and Cena's image is hardly what I would call professional especially when he was a heel.
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Old 05-01-2013, 05:47 PM   #49 (permalink)
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Default Re: Are you against the big guy philosophy?

Hell no. People want some one that is credible and looks like they could kick your ass. That's what wrestling once was, and although I'm a big fan of Zigglypuff,CM Punk,Daniel Bryan ECT, the bigger guys are just more entertaining because lets face it,would you rather watch a fast speedy guy like a Lionel Messi in a MMA fight, or a beast like(very far fetched example)but Dolph Lundgren. I mean, the attitude era was very successful because they had many guys like this. I mean, look at Bobby Lashly, the guy basically came out of nowhere and even though he lacked mic skills he had the look and decent wrestling skills to make him a contender for John Cena's WWE title which is much more even of a match then A john cena vs. a miz. Yah Diggzzz??
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Old 05-01-2013, 05:49 PM   #50 (permalink)
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Default Re: Are you against the big guy philosophy?

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Originally Posted by GingerNinja257 View Post
Yeah like if the face of the company was some bald, beer drinking redneck, most people would be scratching their head wondering who the hell this guy is. Oh wait.. What does a wrestler look like in this day and age? Even casual fans and kids really like smaller guys, just look at Rey Mysterio and Jeff Hardy and Cena's image is hardly what I would call professional especially when he was a heel.
Austin was perfect to be the face of the AE but they aren't the same show any more and haven't been for a long time. And I don't think many people would question what Austin was once they saw him. I never said that people don't like Mysterio or Hardy. They're both wildly popular. Don't know what you're getting at when you bring them up tbh. My point was pertaining to being what John Cena is to the WWE and what they promote him as. Not everybody can be in that spot and you're kind of proving my point with your post. Just because you're over or popular doesn't mean you get to play that role. Image is a huge part of that decision and John Cena's overall image, his brand, is a winning formula. That's why he's there and why he will remain there until somebody comes along to unseat him or WWE completely changes direction and needs a different face to represent them as a company a la Austin in the AE.
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