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post #41 of 157 (permalink) Old 01-29-2013, 02:49 PM
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Re: Ziggler defines overrated...

Oh jesus. When will people learn the difference between selling and bumping. He's a great BUMPER. He's average at SELLING. Just because he BUMPS well and pointlessly kills himself for a clothesline, doesn't make him a good worker. He's average at best, has very little character other than "typical cocky heel" and isn't anything groundbreaking on the mic.

Is he a solid worker, yes. Is he overrated, hugely. I'd struggle to put him in the top 10 workers of the company;

Cena, Cesaro, Bryan, Punk, Henry, Big Show, Sheamus, Rey Mysterio, Chris Jericho, possibly Alberto Del Rio, possibly Randy Orton, Seth Rollins and Dean Ambrose (based on their indy work and FCW work). All of whom are much more captivating workers and stand out a hell of a lot more than Ziggler. As soon as Ziggler learns how to work an interesting control period of a match, then I'd consider him, but he's just so bland and boring when in control it frustrates me. Turning him face, may solve the problem, but there's far too many faces at the minute.

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post #42 of 157 (permalink) Old 01-29-2013, 02:50 PM
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Re: Ziggler defines overrated...

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Originally Posted by truk83 View Post
People aren't tuning in to see him is my point. No one cares if Ziggler isn't on Raw for the next month. Ratings won't decline, nor will they dramatically increase. Get over yourself.
You don't fucking listen do you......

Like Headliner said, nobody moves numbers except Cena, Rock, Vince, Taker and Lesnar. That argument is invalid because I can almost guarantee you have a wrestler who is one of your favourites who doesn't move numbers either...but oh, you'll ignore that because you like him!

Oh but its the position he's on the card right? What about people like Sheamus then who got 6 months as the WHC? What about Punk? Big Show? Del Rio? Jericho? Are they all overrated because they are positioned too high up the card and don't DRAWZ?

The ratings cop out is not a legitimate argument, so YOU get over yourself and come back with a real argument please.



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post #43 of 157 (permalink) Old 01-29-2013, 02:52 PM
Ambrose/Moxley
 
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Re: Ziggler defines overrated...

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Originally Posted by truk83 View Post
What?! I said that he can wrestle, but he has no charisma. Why don't you try quoting some people instead of just saying shit?
Why don't you read what I said instead of writing shit yourself.

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post #44 of 157 (permalink) Old 01-29-2013, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Crusade View Post
You don't fucking listen do you......

Like Headliner said, nobody moves numbers except Cena, Rock, Vince, Taker and Lesnar. That argument is invalid because I can almost guarantee you have a wrestler who is one of your favourites who doesn't move numbers either...but oh, you'll ignore that because you like him!

The ratings cop out is not a legitimate argument, so YOU get over yourself and come back with a real argument please.


agreed. Just look at punk and how everyone blames the ratings on him .... Maybe blame the awful writers for that?

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post #45 of 157 (permalink) Old 01-29-2013, 02:54 PM
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Re: Ziggler defines overrated...

He's overrated for sure, but he's got so much potential that WWE ain't tapping into now that he's in the ME.


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post #46 of 157 (permalink) Old 01-29-2013, 02:55 PM
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Re: Ziggler defines overrated...

Poor first post and then the second is about ratings. Talk about OP going unprepared into a battle.

DZ is the man, he has everything other than a few wins that would elevate him.
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post #47 of 157 (permalink) Old 01-29-2013, 02:58 PM
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Re: Ziggler defines overrated...

Ziggler defines MIDCARD.

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post #48 of 157 (permalink) Old 01-29-2013, 03:06 PM
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Re: Ziggler defines overrated...

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Originally Posted by FluxCapacitor View Post
Oh jesus. When will people learn the difference between selling and bumping. He's a great BUMPER. He's average at SELLING. Just because he BUMPS well and pointlessly kills himself for a clothesline, doesn't make him a good worker. He's average at best, has very little character other than "typical cocky heel" and isn't anything groundbreaking on the mic.

Is he a solid worker, yes. Is he overrated, hugely. I'd struggle to put him in the top 10 workers of the company;

Cena, Cesaro, Bryan, Punk, Henry, Big Show, Sheamus, Rey Mysterio, Chris Jericho, possibly Alberto Del Rio, possibly Randy Orton, Seth Rollins and Dean Ambrose (based on their indy work and FCW work). All of whom are much more captivating workers and stand out a hell of a lot more than Ziggler. As soon as Ziggler learns how to work an interesting control period of a match, then I'd consider him, but he's just so bland and boring when in control it frustrates me. Turning him face, may solve the problem, but there's far too many faces at the minute.
Great bumper? What??? What does that even mean? Selling is either making the opponents move look devastating or selling an injury. I.e ziggler takes a brogue kick, and sells the move as a devastating finisher with his theatrics. Even cena has admitted that ziggler is one of the best workers he's ever worked with, half those people in your list aren't even good workers forget being better than ziggler. HBK back in the attitude era when he started his heel run was considered a 'cocky heel' and look how he evolved. Ziggler character will evolve too with time, just like all top stars have done. He might not be groundbreaking on the mic but he only recently has started to get mic time. CM punk was not dropping pipe bombs as soon as he started wwe...
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post #49 of 157 (permalink) Old 01-29-2013, 03:09 PM
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Re: Ziggler defines overrated...

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Originally Posted by ThePhenomenal-1 View Post
Great bumper? What??? What does that even mean? Selling is either making the opponents move look devastating or selling an injury. I.e ziggler takes a brogue kick, and sells the move as a devastating finisher with his theatrics. Even cena has admitted that ziggler is one of the best workers he's ever worked with, half those people in your list aren't even good workers forget being better than ziggler. HBK back in the attitude era when he started his heel run was considered a 'cocky heel' and look how he evolved. Ziggler character will evolve too with time, just like all top stars have done. He might not be groundbreaking on the mic but he only recently has started to get mic time. CM punk was not dropping pipe bombs as soon as he started wwe...
A bumper is a wrestler who takes moves really well and makes them look good. A seller is a wrestler who sells the move afterward, or sells injuries during a match. Dolph takes great bumps, but he doesn't sell them afterwards. He's back on his feet like nothing happened a few minutes later.

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post #50 of 157 (permalink) Old 01-29-2013, 03:19 PM
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Re: Ziggler defines overrated...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePhenomenal-1 View Post
Great bumper? What??? What does that even mean? Selling is either making the opponents move look devastating or selling an injury. I.e ziggler takes a brogue kick, and sells the move as a devastating finisher with his theatrics. Even cena has admitted that ziggler is one of the best workers he's ever worked with, half those people in your list aren't even good workers forget being better than ziggler. HBK back in the attitude era when he started his heel run was considered a 'cocky heel' and look how he evolved. Ziggler character will evolve too with time, just like all top stars have done. He might not be groundbreaking on the mic but he only recently has started to get mic time. CM punk was not dropping pipe bombs as soon as he started wwe...
:steiner2 class time :steiner2

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossar...restling_terms

Bumping: To fall on the mat or ground. A flat back bump is a bump in which a wrestler lands solidly on his back with high impact, spread over as much surface as possible.



Selling: To react to an opponent's attacks in a manner that suggests to the audience that the attacks actually hurt.

You know when all of the IWC becomes really annoyed when Cena has the shit kicked out of him for 20 minutes and has his leg worked on for 15 minutes, yet all of a sudden he's running around the ring like nothing, that is not selling. I'm not saying Ziggler does exactly that, but he isn't the best seller in the company. Bumping, on the other hand, is the landing process of a move. Look at the .gif. Ziggler is a great bumper because he landed in a way that legitimately looked like it hurt, and it probably did hurt like hell. Had he simply ran in to the headbutt, fell on his ass and rolled backwards a bit, that wouldn't be great bumping.

In terms of those guys not being good workers, I could probably write 1000 word essays on all of them and why they are not only good workers, but better workers than Dolph. Finally, in terms of Ziggler only just being given time on the mic, I understand that. But surely if he hasn't had enough time on the mic for me to think he's nothing great, then surely he hasn't had enough time on the mic for everybody else to think he's good?

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